The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...

[Rasins]

You know, the 45th Parallel makes sense, but where ....



If you'll note ... Yellowstone is on the 45 Parallel.  It's kind of ... turbulent.  It would make sense to have a way there to the cottage.

[Griffyn612]

You know, the 45th Parallel makes sense, but where ....



If you'll note ... Yellowstone is on the 45 Parallel.  It's kind of ... turbulent.  It would make sense to have a way there to the cottage.

That could be one.  Imagine having to open a way in between ejections from Old Faithful to come out in a small pond out behind the cottage.

[Quantus]

Honestly, I'm not sure where to go with this.  The text clearly establishes that one Court grows stronger while the other weakens based on the active season in the northern hemisphere.

If their power was constant due to hemispheric equality, then the entire premise of Aurora's plan is false.  The entire plot of SK, with the Table passing from Court to Court, is pointless.

Im a little stuck too.  It doesnt seem that complicated to me, but it still seems like you are confusing the difference between the Court and the larger Seasonal force.  I wish I had a whiteboard, I feel like a few venn diagrams could clear this up. 

As for the Gates, those are manned by personnel, not by power. What's more, there were goblins fighting (whom aren't members of Winter, even if they fight for them sometimes) and Summer Fae serving alongside Winter's troops.  It's a team effort, one that doesn't seem dependent on any fluctuating power levels between the Courts.

That's a whole separate thing for us to disagree on, lets hold off on that for now

[Rasins]

That's a whole separate thing for us to disagree on, lets hold off on that for now

Now THAT is a diplomatic response.

[Griffyn612]

As for the Gates, those are manned by personnel, not by power. What's more, there were goblins fighting (whom aren't members of Winter, even if they fight for them sometimes) and Summer Fae serving alongside Winter's troops.  It's a team effort, one that doesn't seem dependent on any fluctuating power levels between the Courts.
That's a whole separate thing for us to disagree on, lets hold off on that for now

Okay, forget everything I've proposed and go solely on what Aurora says in SK.

“In two days’ time, Midsummer will be upon us. The height of Summer’s strength.”

When you read this, what are you interpreting "Summer" as?  I'm interpreting it as the Court.

"If we are to have any chance of victory, we must
strike while at the peak of our strength."

When I read this, I interpret it again as Aurora saying the Summer Court is at peak strength.  Which implies their strength, their power, ebbs and wanes with the seasons.

[Quantus]

Okay, forget everything I've proposed and go solely on what Aurora says in SK.When you read this, what are you interpreting "Summer" as?  I'm interpreting it as the Court.
When I read this, I interpret it again as Aurora saying the Summer Court is at peak strength.  Which implies their strength, their power, ebbs and wanes with the seasons.

I agree with both of those, where I differ is in the idea that the Summer Court she's talking about is the sum total of Summer on Earth.

I think you are picturing a single Ball of Power that floats back and forth from Summer to Winter and Back, so when Summers power is Waxing toward Midsummer and Winters in Waning, it's because Power is moving from one Season/Court to the other; Summer is stronger at Midsummer because that's when they hold the Largest Share of total Season-Power. 

I Picture two separate but equal Balls of Power (Muspel and Nifel, per Norse Creation, but I digress).  When Summer's power begins to drop, that Power (which per the Mothers cannot be created or destroyed) is slipping to the Southern Hemisphere in equal Measures (because that's how Seasons normally work across hemispheres), and to counter that Winter's Power is moving up from the Southern Hemisphere in lockstep. 

You are picturing one ball being passed back and forth, Im picturing two separate but (nominally) equal balls of Power that are being passed Up and Down with opposite timing. 

The linchpin of all that is the WOJ on there being a Single Stone Table.  If it were as you describe and Only the Northern Hemisphere matters, that the Southern seasons simply do not factor in, then A)the Table would never move, and B) the relative politics of the Wyld would not matter.

[Griffyn612]

I agree with both of those, where I differ is in the idea that the Summer Court she's talking about is the sum total of Summer on Earth.

I think you are picturing a single Ball of Power that floats back and forth from Summer to Winter and Back, so when Summers power is Waxing toward Midsummer and Winters in Waning, it's because Power is moving from one Season/Court to the other; Summer is stronger at Midsummer because that's when they hold the Largest Share of total Season-Power. 

I Picture two separate but equal Balls of Power (Muspel and Nifel, per Norse Creation, but I digress).  When Summer's power begins to drop, that Power (which per the Mothers cannot be created or destroyed) is slipping to the Southern Hemisphere in equal Measures (because that's how Seasons normally work across hemispheres), and to counter that Winter's Power is moving up from the Southern Hemisphere in lockstep. 

You are picturing one ball being passed back and forth, Im picturing two separate but (nominally) equal balls of Power that are being passed Up and Down with opposite timing. 

The linchpin of all that is the WOJ on there being a Single Stone Table.  If it were as you describe and Only the Northern Hemisphere matters, that the Southern seasons simply do not factor in, then A)the Table would never move, and B) the relative politics of the Wyld would not matter.

So are you saying that the Summer Court doesn't have access to the Seasonal Power in the southern hemisphere, and the same for the Winter Court in southern winter?  Which makes them weaker?  Because that's the only way they could lose power like you're describing.  But that doesn't work with them taking the stone table down there when needed.

[Quantus]

So are you saying that the Summer Court doesn't have access to the Seasonal Power in the southern hemisphere, and the same for the Winter Court in southern winter? Which makes them weaker?  Because that's the only way they could lose power like you're describing.  But that doesn't work with them taking the stone table down there when needed.

...I dont think so?  You lost me on that leap. 

I guess what Im saying is that in June of a given year, Mab has access to different levels of Power depending on which hemisphere she is standing in at any given moment.  SK was described as it was, and fell out as it was, because the Fight was taking place in the Northern Hemisphere.  In theory Aurora's plan would have work in the Southern hemisphere (maybe not quite as well do the the "less absolute" control the courts have so the weather fallout might not have been as intense) but she'd have had to wait 6 months because she needed the Table to be getting passed Summer to Winter for her plan to succeed. 

[Griffyn612]

...I dont think so?  You lost me on that leap. 

I guess what Im saying is that in June of a given year, Mab has access to different levels of Power depending on which hemisphere she is standing in at any given moment.  SK was described as it was, and fell out as it was, because the Fight was taking place in the Northern Hemisphere.  In theory Aurora's plan would have work in the Southern hemisphere (maybe not quite as well do the the "less absolute" control the courts have so the weather fallout might not have been as intense) but she'd have had to wait 6 months because she needed the Table to be getting passed Summer to Winter for her plan to succeed.

That doesn't make sense to me.  What you're suggesting makes "possession" of the Table pointless, because as soon as the summer solstice ended, Titania could have moved it to the southern hemisphere.  Mab would have been more powerful than her, but she wouldn't have been able to pour the SK's power into Winter, because Summer would be in control down there.

[groinkick]

...I dont think so?  You lost me on that leap. 

I guess what Im saying is that in June of a given year, Mab has access to different levels of Power depending on which hemisphere she is standing in at any given moment.  SK was described as it was, and fell out as it was, because the Fight was taking place in the Northern Hemisphere.  In theory Aurora's plan would have work in the Southern hemisphere (maybe not quite as well do the the "less absolute" control the courts have so the weather fallout might not have been as intense) but she'd have had to wait 6 months because she needed the Table to be getting passed Summer to Winter for her plan to succeed.

Pretty sure the Sidhe got their power mostly from European paganism, and such.  So the Winter, and Summer solstice would align with those beliefs, and not because of the weather in different parts of the world.

[Quantus]

That doesn't make sense to me.  What you're suggesting makes "possession" of the Table pointless, because as soon as the summer solstice ended, Titania could have moved it to the southern hemisphere.  Mab would have been more powerful than her, but she wouldn't have been able to pour the SK's power into Winter, because Summer would be in control down there.

That's not how SK was going down.  Aurora needed the War so that the Hill would be contested and she'd be able to reach the Table when/where it was Winter's, and by then Titania and Mab had gone too far down the Obliterate Everything path to simply stall out everything so suddenly.

[Griffyn612]

That's not how SK was going down.  Aurora needed the War so that the Hill would be contested and she'd be able to reach the Table when/where it was Winter's, and by then Titania and Mab had gone too far down the Obliterate Everything path to simply stall out everything so suddenly.

But that's the thing.  You're saying that both Courts possess the Table at the same time.  Even though Summer had it in the North, Winter would have it in the South.  Which would mean Man could have taken Ronald South with the Table (if she'd actually kidnapped him) and sacrificed​him immediately.  No need to wait.

[Quantus]

But that's the thing.  You're saying that both Courts possess the Table at the same time.  Even though Summer had it in the North, Winter would have it in the South.  Which would mean Man could have taken Ronald South with the Table (if she'd actually kidnapped him) and sacrificed​him immediately.  No need to wait.

Well sure, that's exactly what the WOJ on the Table RE Hemispheres seems to be saying:

2011 Bitten by Books Q&A
Oh and changing over of the stone table from winter-summer/summer-winter , well there are two hemispheres, are there two tables?
One table, but it goes where it is called.

Had things operated how you describe, this would make no sense, and the response would have ended to be something along the lines of "One table, but it only affects the Northern Hemisphere" because it wouldnt ever actually move across the equator. 

[Griffyn612]

Well sure, that's exactly what the WOJ on the Table RE Hemispheres seems to be saying:

I interpret that as him saying Mab can borrow the Table when needed, but during the Summer​ possession, it's still Summer's.

Had things operated how you describe, this would make no sense, and the response would have ended to be something along the lines of "One table, but it only affects the Northern Hemisphere" because it wouldnt ever actually move across the equator.

And if your interpretation were right, then Titania and her retinue would have known Mab didn't have the mantle, because if she did, it would have already been sacrificed on the Table in the south.  The whole plot of SK wouldn't work.

[Quantus]

I interpret that as him saying Mab can borrow the Table when needed, but during the Summer​ possession, it's still Summer's.

ya, now THAT makes no sense at all. 

And if your interpretation were right, then Titania and her retinue would have known Mab didn't have the mantle, because if she did, it would have already been sacrificed on the Table in the south.  The whole plot of SK wouldn't work.

Not at all, that assertion is assuming that Titania would somehow know the full goals of Aurora's plan while still mis-attributing it to Mab. It's not like Sacrificing the Knight Mantle on the Stone Table was the only possible Goal of stealing it.