Are the Mothers immune to iron?

[groinkick]

I wonder if Mother Winter's Mantle that is immune to Iron was obtained before, or after she became Mother Winter.

[Quantus]

I wonder if Mother Winter's Mantle that is immune to Iron was obtained before, or after she became Mother Winter.

Hard to say, though if the Iron Teeth are indeed a Baba Yaga reference, wikipedia says the name is from the 16th century and the roots might into early medieval periods, which sound like it's a latter thing. 

[Rasins]

Hard to say, though if the Iron Teeth are indeed a Baba Yaga reference, wikipedia says the name is from the 16th century and the roots might into early medieval periods, which sound like it's a latter thing.

I think a lot of that has to do with who she was before MW

[vultur]

Well, her full name is Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter, so any of those might work as a more formal Name. 

Or, as Mira indicated, she might choose a wholly new name as her public moniker.  Per WOJ "Mab" is not her actual Name, or at least not her whole Name.  Maybe she'll choose one, or eventually decide to adopt something fitting.  The name "Maeve" appears in 1st century literature while the DF Maeve supposedly was born only a couple centuries ago, so maybe it's something that gets "picked"?

Despite all the talk about how the mantle will eventually overwrite the host entirely, we've seen several Ladies come and go without name changes, they seem to maintain much more of their Human identities and natures (part of the Lady role in the cosmic balance, methinks).  At the other end you have the Mothers that do not appear to maintain much in the way of personal identity (though they might just not share with Harry).

I wouldn't be surprised if Mab is the original Medb/Maeve (of Connacht) and just passed on the name (which she no longer used) to her daughter... some people think that Medb is where the name Mab originally came from (Wikipedia says that's probably wrong, but the idea is definitely out there, and Jim might have seen it & liked it).

Mab's "only" been Queen of Winter for about a thousand years, but she could have lived in Ireland as a changeling in the 1st century, and spent the intervening time as Winter Lady.

[vultur]

I think a lot of that has to do with who she was before MW

My WAG is that the current Mother Winter (the only "original" holder among the current holders of the 6 Faerie Queen Mantles) is actually the original Hecate, who Bob suggests (in Welcome to the Jungle) was a Hecatean Hag who used an ascension rite.

Thus, she's not inherently Fae. While she's using her Fae mantle (as opposed to Atropos/Skuld, Baba Yaga, etc.) iron actually piercing her might be a bad thing, but she's probably OK as long as she doesn't bite her tongue with the iron teeth or cut herself with the cleaver. And a being on her cosmic level of power might be able to mitigate even those effects.

[Quantus]

I think a lot of that has to do with who she was before MW

Nah, that's my point: all the baba yaga myths originate from times long after she would have needed to become Mother Winter, rather than pre-dating it. 

[Rasins]

Nah, that's my point: all the baba yaga myths originate from times long after she would have needed to become Mother Winter, rather than pre-dating it.

Still doesn't mean that who she was before wouldn't make a difference.

[Quantus]

Still doesn't mean that who she was before wouldn't make a difference.

Of course not.  It just means that the only Name we currently know that has Iron as a specific part of it's legend appears to have formed long after after that. 

[Rasins]

Of course not.  It just means that the only Name we currently know that has Iron as a specific part of it's legend appears to have formed long after after that.

Ohhhh ... okay.  Gotcha.

Babba Yagga came after Mother Winter?

[Quantus]

Ohhhh ... okay.  Gotcha.

Babba Yagga came after Mother Winter?

Came after, or maybe Got Eaten By, if they started as different beings. 

[TheCuriousFan]

The topic of Mother Winter's cleaver got me thinking about something that always bugged me. Mother Winter has iron teeth and they have a lot of knives made of iron in their cottage. Previously it was shown to be incredibly irresponsible to have any iron in Faerie at all, let alone having it be part of a fae's anatomy. Im curious if they're so absurdly powerful that the Bane doesn't have any effect on them, because that would lead to some very scary implications.

Harry specifically calls her out as being immune to iron when Sharkface messes with his head in CD (and on that note, I'm not 100% sure that the lying rule applies to them either).

[Con]

Harry specifically calls her out as being immune to iron when Sharkface messes with his head in CD (and on that note, I'm not 100% sure that the lying rule applies to them either).

The Lying rule applies, but it's a bit redundant as the Mothers are required by cosmic law to speak as vaguely as possible with multiple meanings, just look at Mother Summer's conversation with Harry on the Wall to the Gates.

Mother Summer is talking about Maeve, Mab, and Harry's ability to make their own decisions despite their mantle's influence at the same time. As well as giving hints as to the fact that Mab is more human in caring for her daughter than she let's on.

[TheCuriousFan]

The Lying rule applies, but it's a bit redundant as the Mothers are required by cosmic law to speak as vaguely as possible with multiple meanings, just look at Mother Summer's conversation with Harry on the Wall to the Gates.

Mother Summer somehow managed to inject her voice with profound skepticism. “I’m sure he’s overjoyed to owe loyalty to you,” she said.

Either the rule isn't absolute for the Mothers or there's a sarcasm clause in it (or maybe it's just an error).

[Quantus]

The Lying rule applies, but it's a bit redundant as the Mothers are required by cosmic law to speak as vaguely as possible with multiple meanings, just look at Mother Summer's conversation with Harry on the Wall to the Gates.

Mother Summer is talking about Maeve, Mab, and Harry's ability to make their own decisions despite their mantle's influence at the same time. As well as giving hints as to the fact that Mab is more human in caring for her daughter than she let's on.

||The Lying Rule Theory||

I have a theory, humor me for a minute. What if the Mother's are not Bound by the Lying Rule persay, rather they are bound by the same Root Cause of the No Lying Mandate, which is a Law against infringing on Mortal Free Will, and is the same root cause of the No Killing Un-Affiliated Mortals Law and their whole Bargains/Letter-of-the-Law obsession.  What if they are limited in how they are allowed to interact with and/or restrict Mortal Free Will in the same way Angel's are.  But lacking the knowledge and perception of an Angel, the average fae gets a Letter of the Law mandate (Never Ly), whereas the Mothers are held to the more direct/real/cosmic restriction of actual Free Will Interference, which they can deal with because they can actually percieve the Free Will driven branching multiverse. Like how they werent allowed to mention the Unicorn until asked about it, or conversely how they can have a conversation while still knowing everything the other knows, and possibly even being fragments of the same Entity.   Thoughts?

[Rasins]

I would suggest that the mothers are NOT limited to not being able to lie. 

Then again, why would they lie?  I'd bet they don't get many visitors in the first place, and really don't have much opportunity.  But there really isn't any reason to lie at that point.