Weapons that can kill Immortals?

[jonas]

Id be careful on that.  "Skinwalker" is a term that is widely used but also very diverse in its application.  Just because another myth gets translated to "Skinwalker" wouldnt be enough on it's own to equate them with Naagloshii in my book.  Many Skinwalker usages Ive seen, for example, are basically just (usually evil) shapeshifters.  The Dresden TV show had a "Skinwalker" that was mostly just a shapeshifter with a Buffalo Bill fetish. 

The elements Id look for to equate with a Naagloshii are shapeshifting and/or innate Magic, the whole Power Via Fear thing, the "Intellectus for Torture" Ability, the presence of both Native/divine versions and the Trained Ex-Human ones, and also the part where they are Anchored to a particular geographic location and loose power if they leave.

Mostly i'd isolate it to 'witch/sorcerer' and ability to shapeshift. The area thing would be a DF thing to apply to all, and the differences otherwise would be local faith applied directly to said being(s) vs over general belief in the species as a whole. Each one is potentially a junior godling.

[Rasins]

Id be careful on that.  "Skinwalker" is a term that is widely used but also very diverse in its application.  Just because another myth gets translated to "Skinwalker" wouldnt be enough on it's own to equate them with Naagloshii in my book.  Many Skinwalker usages Ive seen, for example, are basically just (usually evil) shapeshifters.  The Dresden TV show had a "Skinwalker" that was mostly just a shapeshifter with a Buffalo Bill fetish. 

The elements Id look for to equate with a Naagloshii are shapeshifting and/or innate Magic, the whole Power Via Fear thing, the "Intellectus for Torture" Ability, the presence of both Native/divine versions and the Trained Ex-Human ones, and also the part where they are Anchored to a particular geographic location and loose power if they leave. 

Q - I'd agree with this, if you were looking for Naagloshii that are named something different in different cultures.  However the term "skinwalker" could easily apply to lots of other beings.

Pretty much anything that can change it's shape and is "evil" would suffice.

Why is a Naagloshii even called a skinwalker.  Did Shagnasty ever try to imitate anyone else and "walk in their skin" like the one in the TV series?

[Quantus]

Q - I'd agree with this, if you were looking for Naagloshii that are named something different in different cultures.  However the term "skinwalker" could easily apply to lots of other beings.
Pretty much anything that can change it's shape and is "evil" would suffice.

I really dont think so; "shapeshifter" applies to lots of different ones, and so you could take the literal translation of the Naagloshii  (lit."by means of it, [he or she] goes on all fours".).  But "Skinwalker" isnt used anywhere else but for the native american  For our purposes I'd point to this WOJ and suggest we  ignore that.  We already have 5 different flavors of Werewolf, we dont need to lump them all into a larger shapeshifter category, and certainly shouldnt expect the navajo Skinwalker to be in any way related (necessarily) by virtue of a fluid form alone.  Otherwise suddenly the Alpha's and LTW and a wide swath of Fae are all "Skinwalkers."

And beyond that, there are a whole bunch of relatively unique traits to the Naagloshii that are not at all related to changing forms.  Not to mention that Shaggy was oddly bad at shapeshifting (in that it always maintains some cosmetic elements like it's yellow fur). 

I see it as akin to the age-old nerd debate of the differences between Vampires, Zombies, and Mummies;  all are undead, but the first has specific Blood fetish, while the last has specific (usually Egyptian) religious and cultural overtones.  Skinwalkers are the Mummies of the Shapeshifter world

But all that being said, Ner-taxonomy is a hell of a rabbit hole that we may not want to chase too long, for sanity's sake

(click to show/hide)

though in mythology a skinwalker is a human who can take animal shape

In mainstream Western academic mythology, which was mostly established at a time when everyone automatically assumed that the Native Americans couldn't possibly have had anything original in their mythos, (and when Buffalo Bill Cody's Wild West Show was drawing big crowds by claiming to present the "true" West) yes, a skinwalker is the same thing as a European gothic-witch/werewolf. 

I'd advise anyone to at least read something that was written by someone who /talked/ to a Native American at some point, though.   Preferably one of the Dine', though it is not a matter of open discussion among the tribes, even today.

They aren't the same.  They share some similar capabilities, but they are not at /all/ the same.   

Jim

Why is a Naagloshii even called a skinwalker.  Did Shagnasty ever try to imitate anyone else and "walk in their skin" like the one in the TV series?

"Skinwalker" is the traditional translation of the actual mythological Naagloshii (yee naaldlooshii), which is a Navajo/Dine tradition. 

[Rasins]

Okay .... I can buy that.

[kazimmoinuddin]

With the theme of being vulnerable to your own energy, could goodman grey be a threat to a skinwalker?

[jonas]

With the theme of being vulnerable to your own energy, could goodman grey be a threat to a skinwalker?

How about his direct blood relation? Off the wall one here, Grey is Shagnasties son? I have no real reason to think that but it'd be damn ironic and I am sure one way or another they'll both be back.

[Bakoro]

In the DFverse Bob says something to the effect of there being skinwalkers like dudes who can shapeshift, and Skinwalkers the Real Deal. 
   
Lots of cultures have generalized shape shifters in their cultures, things that can morph into all manner of beasts and imitate other people. That's common enough. I don't think the term "Skinwalker" specifically comes up anywhere, but some one thinks any other culture in the world uses a similar term, I'd be willing to accept even loose translations.

Something that has been mentioned at least three time in the DF so far are the Rakshasa. These are similar to the Naagloshii, but distinct enough in their mythology to assume that they are entirely different creatures.
So there certainly are other Shapeshifting baddies in the DFverse, and we'll *definitely* see at least one more in the Rakshasa. It's been mentioned too many times to not be used.

Regarding the earlier conversation about the various types of immortality, I'd like to point out the Super Ghouls in the Raith Deeps. They were all shot to pieces, and could reasonably be called "dead", but Dresden watched them get better.   
I'm pretty sure that that scene is pretty much the prime example of what happens when certain types of Immortal creatures get damaged, compared to little i immortal creatures. Just like death is a spectrum, so too must immortality be a spectrum.


To answer the OP, I don't think there are very many things that can act like the Swords, or at least I hope not, because that would cheapen them. Nearly every culture has a legendary weapon or two though, and I don't mind that since *something* has to allow a vanilla human to be a heroic champion.

I'm of the opinion that the Athame might be powerful on it's own now, but that's not the most important thing. If Mab and Titania are Morgana/Morgause, or vice versa, then that would mean that the Athame is a powerful object that is tied to one of the Queens. So, given what we know about how personal connections can be used against a being, I'd think that Lea might have had something with a direct metaphysical line to Mab or Titania.

[kazimmoinuddin]

I always wondered if demon reach can be used against those linked to the inmates. So using the skinwalkers as an example, it would allow their scions, apprentices and those linked to their power to be messed with. They could be pecieved as echoes or shadows of true skinwalkers. Possibly not killed outright but definitly weakened in some form.

[LordDresden2]

I always wondered if demon reach can be used against those linked to the inmates. So using the skinwalkers as an example, it would allow their scions, apprentices and those linked to their power to be messed with. They could be pecieved as echoes or shadows of true skinwalkers. Possibly not killed outright but definitly weakened in some form.

There's no way to know, but if I was the Warden, I'd be afraid to try unless I had very good reason to think it would work.  My fear would be that doing so might act sort of like breaking a magic circle, if there was even a chance such an action might open up a way for one of those prisoners to escape...

[Rasins]

To answer the OP, I don't think there are very many things that can act like the Swords, or at least I hope not, because that would cheapen them. Nearly every culture has a legendary weapon or two though, and I don't mind that since *something* has to allow a vanilla human to be a heroic champion.

So, I wonder if our modern day nukes are our Legendary weapons.  They are pretty badass.

[wyltok]

So, I wonder if our modern day nukes are our Legendary weapons.  They are pretty badass.

Some have argued that nuclear waste are our cursed weapons.

You should not have come here.

This is not a place of honor. No great deed is commemorated here. Nothing of value is here.

What is here is dangerous and repulsive.

We considered ourselves a powerful culture. We harnessed the hidden fire, and used it for our own purposes.
Then we saw the fire could burn within living things, unnoticed until it destroyed them.

And we were afraid.

We built great tombs to hold the fire for one hundred thousand years, after which it would no longer kill.
If this place is opened, the fire will not be isolated from the world, and we will have failed to protect you.
Leave this place and never come back.

From, of all things, a My Little Pony fanfiction story. A more nuanced real world article is here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2015/04/17/talking-to-the-future-hey-theres-nuclear-waste-buried-here/#48216e172fef

[Rasins]

There's no way to know, but if I was the Warden, I'd be afraid to try unless I had very good reason to think it would work.  My fear would be that doing so might act sort of like breaking a magic circle, if there was even a chance such an action might open up a way for one of those prisoners to escape...

Yeah, I'm pretty much of the opinion to let the Well just be, and kind of forget it's even there.  Try to forget that you can even let them free, or that they are even there.  Some things are too dangerous to even think about.

[Quantus]

Yeah, I'm pretty much of the opinion to let the Well just be, and kind of forget it's even there.  Try to forget that you can even let them free, or that they are even there.  Some things are too dangerous to even think about.

Lets consider Hollywood as a collection of Cautionary Tales and ask, is it really ever a good idea to release a Prisoner to throw at a bigger enemy that you cannot handle yourself?  Lets assume that none of the Well's inmates were Wrongly imprisoned or are now miraculously Reformed, and avoid those Tragic Protagonist tropes.   

[Rasins]

Well, there is Eddie Murphy's 48-hours.

[Quantus]

Well, there is Eddie Murphy's 48-hours.

That would fall into the aforementioned Reformed Convict Category.