Hades question

[groinkick]

Hades had a crown (halo?) of Mordite.  Harry took notice of it and had some ideas of it.  Here is a question I have.  Could the Mordite crown/halo actually be of significance about Hades?  Mordite comes from the Outside.  I was thinking maybe he wears it like a trophy for his fights against the Outsiders, or perhaps it's an actual symbol of status for a position he holds (besides the obvious one).  Think it has a meaning or was Harry's guesses more accurate?

Another thing to consider also is that Hades has something from the Outside.  Mother Winter also does I think with the Black Staff/Walking stick.  I have the opinion that it's connected to the Outside, and that's why it's able to absorb the negative effects of dark magic.  Harry said it looked alive.  I think it's a form of life from there.

[Tiberius]

Sure it could. From greek mythology, IIRC, Hecate (MW, and all the other fairy queens) was the only titan to help the olympians in the war against the titans (Old ones? The ones banished to the Outside?) so she could've gotten her trophy stick, and Hades his crown. Now, for us to truly validate this, we need more greek gods, but we have  a good basis for forming this hypothesis.

[Quantus]

Sure it could. From greek mythology, IIRC, Hecate (MW, and all the other fairy queens) was the only titan to help the olympians in the war against the titans (Old ones? The ones banished to the Outside?) so she could've gotten her trophy stick, and Hades his crown. Now, for us to truly validate this, we need more greek gods, but we have  a good basis for forming this hypothesis.

That was Rhea, Zues's mother.  Hecate was from a younger generation of the Olympian gods, though Zeus honored her above most (all?) others for some reason (In the DF Id credit it to her also being their Fate rep).

As far as the Crown goes, Hades most famous magical Artifact was a Helm of Darkness (which I could see as a reasonable mythological drift from a Crown of Mordite).  The myths said it turned the wearer invisible, and was featured in a myth or two, but in a DF context Id speculate that it's not simply visual invisibility but rather a more powerful/absolute sort of Anti-detection. It was supposedly forged along-side Zues's lightning bolt and Posiden's trident, so we're talking their original Items of Office/Power

[Snark Knight]

but in a DF context Id speculate that it's not simply visual invisibility but rather a more powerful/absolute sort of Anti-detection.

Maybe it specifically makes him undetectable to Nemesis. That would be valuable indeed.

[groinkick]

Maybe because Nemesis causes insanity, and loss of control he keeps that there so if he's ever corrupted he'll lose control and it will destroy him..  Kind of like a self destruct if he's infected.

[Quantus]

Maybe because Nemesis causes insanity, and loss of control he keeps that there so if he's ever corrupted he'll lose control and it will destroy him..  Kind of like a self destruct if he's infected.

Oooh, that's dark, I likeses it.   

[Mira]

He wears Mordite, because he can....

[groinkick]

He wears Mordite, because he can....

That's one theory.  Harry didn't even know if it was a sign of control, or immunity.

[Quantus]

The more we talk about it the more Im hoping it's a more specific and unique Artifact, rather than just a bunch of Mordite under mental control. 

[Quantus]

Maybe it specifically makes him undetectable to Nemesis. That would be valuable indeed.

Hmm, you know, that could explain it. Mordite is matter from Outside, it could make sense that surrounding your head with such things would make you (or maybe just your thoughts) appear to also be Of the Outside and thus pass beneath Outsider and/or Nemesis's notice.

[Second Aristh]

That was Rhea, Zues's mother.  Hecate was from a younger generation of the Olympian gods, though Zeus honored her above most (all?) others for some reason (In the DF Id credit it to her also being their Fate rep).

As far as the Crown goes, Hades most famous magical Artifact was a Helm of Darkness (which I could see as a reasonable mythological drift from a Crown of Mordite).  The myths said it turned the wearer invisible, and was featured in a myth or two, but in a DF context Id speculate that it's not simply visual invisibility but rather a more powerful/absolute sort of Anti-detection. It was supposedly forged along-side Zues's lightning bolt and Posiden's trident, so we're talking their original Items of Office/Power

From my memory, helping to defeat the Titans was the reason that Zeus honored Hecate above all.  Greek mythological timelines can get funky, but she was the daughter of Titans, not Olympians.

I like your Helm of Darkness idea.  Someone mentioned something to the effect that Hades's vault was especially difficult to spy into magically.  I wonder if the mordite crown is related to that in some way?

[Quantus]

From my memory, helping to defeat the Titans was the reason that Zeus honored Hecate above all.  Greek mythological timelines can get funky, but she was the daughter of Titans, not Olympians.

I like your Helm of Darkness idea.  Someone mentioned something to the effect that Hades's vault was especially difficult to spy into magically.  I wonder if the mordite crown is related to that in some way?

Hmm, I cant find any mention of her having a specific role in the Titan war.  She's more or less of the same generation as Zeus and the other Olympians, so Id thought of her as one of them rather than a titan (damn it's a fuzzy line) but she wasnt one of the ones that Cronus ate, so mabe not.  At the wiki level of research there's apparently a lot of debate about her status: apparently only Hesiod's account describes her in such an ascendant way, in stark contrast to other sources, to the point that people think he was trying to "promote" the status of his village's locally preferred patron goddess.



EDIT:  OK, I found at least one mention on wikipedia of her in the titan war.  Grain of Salt on it I think, as the context is that it was one of several excuses used to explain her continued presence in the pantheon, and it directly contradicts the more widely accepted bit where Prometheus and his mother Themis were the noted Titans that sides with the Olympians.  Looks like I was wrong about Rhea though, she saved Zeus and thus made the war possible, but doesnt look like anyone thinks she took part in the war itself.

(click to show/hide)

If Hecate's cult spread from Anatolia into Greece, it is possible it presented a conflict, as her role was already filled by other more prominent deities in the Greek pantheon, above all by Artemis and Selene. This line of reasoning lies behind the widely accepted hypothesis that she was a foreign deity who was incorporated into the Greek pantheon. Other than in the Theogony, the Greek sources do not offer a consistent story of her parentage, or of her relations in the Greek pantheon: sometimes Hecate is related as a Titaness, and a mighty helper and protector of humans. Her continued presence was explained by asserting that, because she was the only Titan who aided Zeus in the battle of gods and Titans, she was not banished into the underworld realms after their defeat by the Olympians.[citation needed]

[Second Aristh]

Hmm, I cant find any mention of her having a specific role in the Titan war.  She's more or less of the same generation as Zeus and the other Olympians, so Id thought of her as one of them rather than a titan (damn it's a fuzzy line) but she wasnt one of the ones that Cronus ate, so mabe not.  At the wiki level of research there's apparently a lot of debate about her status: apparently only Hesiod's account describes her in such an ascendant way, in stark contrast to other sources, to the point that people think he was trying to "promote" the status of his village's locally preferred patron goddess.



EDIT:  OK, I found at least one mention on wikipedia of her in the titan war.  Grain of Salt on it I think, as the context is that it was one of several excuses used to explain her continued presence in the pantheon, and it directly contradicts the more widely accepted bit where Prometheus and his mother Themis were the noted Titans that sides with the Olympians.  Looks like I was wrong about Rhea though, she saved Zeus and thus made the war possible, but doesnt look like anyone thinks she took part in the war itself.

(click to show/hide)

Yeah, pretty much.  Greek mythology gets really fuzzy on some details.  Everybody wanted their local gods to be more important so they swapped around characters and family lines pretty often along the edges of things.  After that, there isn't really a "right" answer.  Olympian vs Titan is often debatable, especially for the ones that stick around after the war.

Did a little research.  I'm going off this source.  It says it's going off Hesiod's Theogony.

[Quantus]

Yeah, pretty much.  Greek mythology gets really fuzzy on some details.  Everybody wanted their local gods to be more important so they swapped around characters and family lines pretty often along the edges of things.  After that, there isn't really a "right" answer.  Olympian vs Titan is often debatable, especially for the ones that stick around after the war.

Did a little research.  I'm going off this source.  It says it's going off Hesiod's Theogony.

No kidding. At least with the Egyptians, when they wanted their god to be more important, they just combined them and hyphenated the Names

[jonas]

Hades had a crown (halo?) of Mordite.  Harry took notice of it and had some ideas of it.  Here is a question I have.  Could the Mordite crown/halo actually be of significance about Hades?  Mordite comes from the Outside.  I was thinking maybe he wears it like a trophy for his fights against the Outsiders, or perhaps it's an actual symbol of status for a position he holds (besides the obvious one).  Think it has a meaning or was Harry's guesses more accurate?

Another thing to consider also is that Hades has something from the Outside.  Mother Winter also does I think with the Black Staff/Walking stick.  I have the opinion that it's connected to the Outside, and that's why it's able to absorb the negative effects of dark magic.  Harry said it looked alive.  I think it's a form of life from there.

'Outsiders' have always had purpose inside. If MS and MW are representative of the position of creator and destroyer, then as soon as the balance was originally struck is when an 'inside' came to be. all entities of death and destruction are inherently more towards the outside(an before properly defined, why demons were originally outsiders in book 1-2) . This jives with what we know of Odin and others not only maintaining  balance but intentionally putting themselves in the positive with 'rent'. I theorize all outergate guards are actually ones with negative leanings. gives them power over outsiders by being connected to them