Converting d20 Adventure Modules to DFRPG

[Quantus]

And I may, in my turn, have completely misunderstood what the OP envisioned.

Here's the crux of it:  Why in the world are these supernaturals (Kobolds) working as "staff" in a public cafe/restaurant???

Brownies clean, it's just their nature.  Cobbs make and repair shoes, and that's THEIR nature.
What kind of supernatural being waits tables, busses dirty dishes, does the barista bit, etc?

And keeps regular working hours?

Brownies clean (though they are Fae so it cant be Free) in the same way Toot and dewdrop fairies..do whatever they do, and are on a similar developmental rung.  The OP gives me the sense that their image of Kobolds is closer to Svartalves, who own property, wear uniforms and/or suits as needed, and operate Mail-order businesses.  In other words: for any race sufficiently advanced/mature/intelligent they have learned the age-old proverb "If you are good at something, never do it for free." 

In the case of this version of Kobolds, specifically:

1) Not Staff, Owner/operators.  Owning your own business makes a BIG difference.  But otherwise assume its a front, no more legit than the Italian restaurant the stereotype mob boss owns.  Their real business would be more along the lines of Information Broker or maybe Fense. 

2) If they are bothering to live in the Mortal world at all, presumably it has something to offer them.  The business HQ would off them a Brick&Mortar front, a legitimate mortal/bureaucratic presence and Identity, and ultimately access to any and all resources you'd expect to otherwise be out of reach for denizens of Undertown.       

3) The cafe descriptions were more along the lines of internet cafe/coffee shop, so I was picturing severe Night-Owl hours, if not open 24-hours.

4)They can always hire brownies to handle the drudgery they dont want to do. 

[Taran]

And I may, in my turn, have completely misunderstood what the OP envisioned.

Here's the crux of it:  Why in the world are these supernaturals (Kobolds) working as "staff" in a public cafe/restaurant???

Brownies clean, it's just their nature.  Cobbs make and repair shoes, and that's THEIR nature.
What kind of supernatural being waits tables, busses dirty dishes, does the barista bit, etc?

And keeps regular working hours?

In jobs that bring them into frequent contact with non-clued mortals?

In the Dresden'verse, I keep WTF'ing...

So it looks to me like they are trying to "mainstream:"  trying to life a day-to-day life largely as if they were mortals themselves.  Working and living alongside mortals.  Passing as mortals.

Maybe that's just me, misunderstanding the OP ...

This is why I've been trying to think of how to fit them into the Dresdenverse.   What is a Kobold and what is it's nature? It's a tiny dragonling that likes to scheme, play tricks and make traps.  I'm not sure where they fit in real-world mythology.

I like the idea of an internet cafe/computer servers because you can have virtual lairs that are trapped with viruses.  Since modern day money is more credit than piles of gold, Kobolds can be the dragons minions that are the first line of defense for its virtual horde.   Computers can't really function in the Nevernever so you have a reason to be in the city.  After that, it's more about what the Dragon's goals which will guide what the Kobolds are doing.

The cafe works better than a random building full of computer servers because(random ideas):

1. (story hook) It gives a reason for the PCs to interact with the NPCs (they happen to be at the locale)
2.  It allows random people to walk in and drop off all their personal information (stolen by the kobolds' clever spyware) allowing them to hack people later and steal more money for the dragon.  Or just have information on lots and lots of people in the city.  Not to mention identity theft etc...
3. launder illicit funds and other underground criminal-type operations.
4.....

[g33k]

The premise is ... One crew works at the restaurant and the other group comes in to settle a score.

The OP gives me the sense that their image of Kobolds is closer to Svartalves, who own property, wear uniforms and/or suits as needed, and operate Mail-order businesses. 

Well, but he's specifically citing the d20 Kobold, in his source material.  Pretty weak, bottom-tier foes (unless they have "class-levels" (extra Refresh, in DFRPG terms)).  But in any case:  foes suitable for his starting PC's (which Svartalves are NOT... ) in a semi(?) comedic "food-fight" scenario.

In the case of this version of Kobolds, specifically:
1) Not Staff, Owner/operators.

I... guess?  I'd be surprised to see d20-esque Kobolds "running a business" in any D&D setting; it doesn't "feel right" for them.

I guess I should clarify that I am including things outside of Dresden Files canon to make the setting my own. Not a lot, mind you, but things like kobolds and other D&D creatures that were taken from real world mythology and folklore. In my version not all creatures come from the Nevernever, and have always been of Earth. I will most likely pull a bit from Supernatural and similar shows as I have seen done on several PBP games here and on other sites.

"Dragons" in Dresdenverse are even-more-badass than in D&D; I am certain there are no tribes of such debased dragonet's (plus, that whole "dragon" linkage to Kobolds is an affectation of D&D; they are akin, folklorically, to a dwarf or other earth-faerie) !

I might take the "kobold" name and power-level (the small/weak/dextrous/trap-maker vibe), but re-do D&D's reptilian/draconic visual into something a bit more human/faerie in nature.  Some of those folkloric antecedents in fact ARE suited for "domestic service" (e.g. in a restaurant or the like), being almost like Brownies !

But then again, it's your game and you are making it YOUR own, so maybe you'd best ignore my folkloric sense...

[Quantus]

Well, but he's specifically citing the d20 Kobold, in his source material.  Pretty weak, bottom-tier foes (unless they have "class-levels" (extra Refresh, in DFRPG terms)).  But in any case:  foes suitable for his starting PC's (which Svartalves are NOT... ) in a semi(?) comedic "food-fight" scenario.
I... guess?  I'd be surprised to see d20-esque Kobolds "running a business" in any D&D setting; it doesn't "feel right" for them.
"Dragons" in Dresdenverse are even-more-badass than in D&D; I am certain there are no tribes of such debased dragonet's (plus, that whole "dragon" linkage to Kobolds is an affectation of D&D; they are akin, folklorically, to a dwarf or other earth-faerie) !

True, in d20 terms, "Dragons" are beings like Tiamet and Bahamut, those with an actual Divine Rank score, whereas "dragons" are everything else up to and including your oldest True Dragons (of dnd terms)

FYI Svartalves /are/ dwarves, they were Tolkien's inspiration for the modern fantasy Dwarf.  The fact that they're historically evolved from the maggots that grew on a dead Ice Giant might not be a preferred topic of dinner conversation around them though. 

I might take the "kobold" name and power-level (the small/weak/dextrous/trap-maker vibe), but re-do D&D's reptilian/draconic visual into something a bit more human/faerie in nature.  Some of those folkloric antecedents in fact ARE suited for "domestic service" (e.g. in a restaurant or the like), being almost like Brownies !

But then again, it's your game and you are making it YOUR own, so maybe you'd best ignore my folkloric sense...

I think you might be getting stuck on Kobolds as seen in a traditional Sword&Board Fantasy setting, but you /have/ to adapt them to the Modern setting somehow, hence the focus on digital traps and hordes.  But Im not sure why you are stuck on the idea of shoehorning them into a corner of Fae, when the so easily fit the mold of one of the created servator races of the cosmic Dragons? 

[g33k]

FYI Svartalves /are/ dwarves, they were Tolkien's inspiration for the modern fantasy Dwarf.  The fact that they're historically evolved from the maggots that grew on a dead Ice Giant might not be a preferred topic of dinner conversation around them though. 

You're right about the original material, of course.  I'm just... unclear on whether they would be proud of their origin story, or see that as grounds to attack you... 

I think you might be getting stuck on Kobolds as seen in a traditional Sword&Board Fantasy setting 

  The OP is using a d20-Modern reference, which minimally-adapts D&D Kobolds.  I am "stuck on" the OP's frame of reference.  Wanting to depart from it, honestly:  I don't think D&D tropes work as well in a Modern Urban Fantasy setting.  But the OP can take what he wants of all this discussion, and leave the rest behind.   

but you /have/ to adapt them to the Modern setting somehow, hence the focus on digital traps and hordes. 

I just wouldn't expect sophistication & cutting-edge stuff from D&D's "Kobold" species.  From an exceptional individual... of course!  In the modern sense, I'd think more of urban street-gang violence, etc.

But Im not sure why you are stuck on the idea of shoehorning them into a corner of Fae, when the so easily fit the mold of one of the created servator races of the cosmic Dragons? 

Kobolds have their own folkloric antecedents.  They're clearly akin to the "Brownies" of Britain, clearly fae.
Attaching them to Dragons is... um.  Doesn't happen (until D&D).

That's not to say that I don't like pretty much all of your ideas -- the Dragon as the (ultimate) patron of a cyber-cafe; data-brokers and hackers accumulating a horde of "modern wealth;" etc.  I really like these ideas a LOT!  I just don't see "shoehorning" either the folkloric "kobold" or the D&D "kobold" into this cutting-edge stuff...

[Taran]

I'm pretty sure that Butcher said that anything that exists in the mortal mind exists in the Nevernever.  Didn't he specifically say that Spiderman exists somewhere in the Nevernever?

Using that logic, I don't see why Kobolds can't exist.  Typical D&D kobolds don't have to but taking the broad theme of a kobold and fitting them into the world is fine.  Besides, it's homebrew and nothing says we can't adapt D&D kobolds to fit Dresden canon.

They could be tiny demons, closer to imps, they could be Dragon changelings (like small draconians), they could be whatever.    In fact, making them small children that were kidnapped brought to the nevernever and changed by magic works as well.  It's a bit more sinister but kids have a knack for technology combined with a kobold's knack for trap-making.

In fact, doing a quick wikipedia search, it says that one legend says they are spirits of dead children.  A dragon harnessing necromantic magic could probably make use of them.

The same search has them as mine spirits

So, they don't have to be dragon related at all but since they come in many different animal forms, there's no reason why they can't be lizard shaped.  Miners offered them offerings to keep them safe in the mines and kobolds were blamed for accidental cave-ins and mysterious deaths (caused by poison gas in the mines).  And if they can live in the mortal realm in a mine, I see no reason why they can't live in the mortal world in an internet cafe.

If a network is a mine and holds 'riches' in the form of virtual money (maybe they invented the bit-coin), then their original form gets changed.  Or you can abandon the computer lizards for something else.  I just like the image of tech-savvy lizards.

[Quantus]

You're right about the original material, of course.  I'm just... unclear on whether they would be proud of their origin story, or see that as grounds to attack you... 

hehe, read the Norse spin-off of the Percy Jackson series recently. They dont see why everyone finds it so gross.  But gods help you if you sit on a barstool without first asking it's Name and History. 

  The OP is using a d20-Modern reference, which minimally-adapts D&D Kobolds.  I am "stuck on" the OP's frame of reference.  Wanting to depart from it, honestly:  I don't think D&D tropes work as well in a Modern Urban Fantasy setting.  But the OP can take what he wants of all this discussion, and leave the rest behind.   

My Bad, I know nothing of d20 Modern; the closest I ever got was BESM.

I just wouldn't expect sophistication & cutting-edge stuff from D&D's "Kobold" species.  From an exceptional individual... of course!  In the modern sense, I'd think more of urban street-gang violence, etc.

Kobolds have their own folkloric antecedents.  They're clearly akin to the "Brownies" of Britain, clearly fae.
Attaching them to Dragons is... um.  Doesn't happen (until D&D).

That's not to say that I don't like pretty much all of your ideas -- the Dragon as the (ultimate) patron of a cyber-cafe; data-brokers and hackers accumulating a horde of "modern wealth;" etc.  I really like these ideas a LOT!  I just don't see "shoehorning" either the folkloric "kobold" or the D&D "kobold" into this cutting-edge stuff...

They were reasonably competent craftsmen in d20 modern, yes?  Since they dont have the mortal issue with tech, I figure that trait couldnt be modernized easily.  The drive for that modernization is 100% just to give them an excuse to interact with the mortal world at all; I figure at some point they'd either just stay in the NN or else move to some remote/isolated place and avoids mortals entirely.  And making them just another street thug race that's useless for anything but violence, while reasonable enough by popular usage, feels like a Waste.

The only reason I get stuck on the idea of tying them to Dragons is the whole Combined Roots of myths and the established fact that Dragons were gods that once-upon-a-time created reptilian servitor races.  I know early myth had them as something more like Earth Gnomes or fairies, but Ive always known them as a lizards species, so I want to put them in that category.  Im sitting here trying to think of a place they'd make sense that wasnt Draconic, but unless they are just some sort of Were-Lizards or other more shamanistic animal spirits, everything that comes to mind as sufficiently reptilian would /also/ likely get bumped into the Secretly a Dragon category, like Tiamat (confirmed by Bob to exist and get power from DnD, in Backup), or maybe Quetzalcoatl. 

And then once we've tied them to DF Dragons/dragons, I just ran with what various disparate details we have about them.

I'm pretty sure that Butcher said that anything that exists in the mortal mind exists in the Nevernever.  Didn't he specifically say that Spiderman exists somewhere in the Nevernever?

Sorta, Everything including Spiderman exist out in the Multiverse, not in the NN; Parallel worlds are specifically something different.  The closest thing I know of is the The Hulk now carries the original mantle of Hercules, and so it now "exist in the minds and imaginations of the fans" (paraphrasing)

[RedRobe]

I do enjoy reading all the suggestions and ideas being generated. I may just wait to see what kind of game he players are interested in before I move forward with the kobold thing. I like the idea of rival dragons in the background. My take on kobolds combined their D&D Draconic appearance with their mythological roots. I could see the working kobolds as dragon scions given a chance to work for their dragon relative at one of his/her business ventures to learn about Earth finance. The rival gang could be the take-and-hoard-minded scions of the other dragon.

[RedRobe]

I want to share an update on my first Dresden scenario. We spent the first two sessions building the city of Columbus, Indiana, and the characters. The third session we started with the characters meeting at a new fast Greek/Asian fusion restaurant (think Fazoli's) to discuss the local problems with a RCV-developed drug called Red Moon making its rounds through the city. I used the d20 Modern Urban Arcana adventure at the back of the campaign setting as a guide. The PCs stopped a brawl between some unruly kobold gangs. Some issues that came up were grokking how maneuvers work, and tagging of aspects placed on baddies. I used the kobold stats provided in this thread. They were super useful! Thanks to all who helped!

[Taran]

What were your issues with maneuvers?

[RedRobe]

Basically the issue was how to pass the free tag from the Helpful Thug aspect created by the maneuver to another character. Then it was narrating how the thug distracted another baddie resulting in the PC who it was passed to getting a +2 on his attack roll rather than the baddie getting a negative to his defense roll.

[Taran]

Basically the issue was how to pass the free tag from the Helpful Thug aspect created by the maneuver to another character. Then it was narrating how the thug distracted another baddie resulting in the PC who it was passed to getting a +2 on his attack roll rather than the baddie getting a negative to his defense roll.

First, you can never give a penalty or block a person's ability to dodge.  Unless it's a compel.  Then anything goes, as long as the compel is fair.

Second: You can do it any way the player wants.

Invoke it for effect.  Now, HELPFUL THUG won't attack us as long as we don't try to hurt him.  This triggers a compel on the thug.  If the NPC accepts the compel,  You run the NPC as being helpful and it can create its own aspects.  It uses it's own turn in the combat to create aspects that the party can tag or it just doesn't interfere.  It may try, on it's turn to overcome the aspect in subsequent rounds.  Social maneuvers and aspects are trickier I find.  You shouldn't be able to permanently take out an enemy with a maneuver, in most cases.  Maybe he uses deceit to 'pretend to be helpful' and if it succeeds, it doesn't need to help you anymore and, possibly, backstabs someone....

Or, you tag HELPFUL THUG for an attack.  "That thug is being helpful and distracts the enemy long enough for me to get a good jab in."  And now the aspect is gone or whatever.

Let the person who tags the aspect describe how they use it.

Important:  there is no right answer.

[RedRobe]

Or, you tag HELPFUL THUG for an attack.  "That thug is being helpful and distracts the enemy long enough for me to get a good jab in."  And now the aspect is gone or whatever.

This is what ended up happening, though the HELPFUL THUG aspect stayed for other paid invokes. If it the tag is spent in this way, then should it go away? If used in any of the other ways, like invoking it for effect, would it stick around until it is overcome? 

[Taran]

If it's a fragile aspect, it needs to be used fairly quickly and it goes away as soon as it's tagged. 

Otherwise, sticky aspects go away when they are no longer relevant, or if they are overcome.

So, attacking the HELPFUL THUG would make the aspect moot.

I guess my point is this:  you can't use a single rapport roll to turn every enemy into an ally for an entire combat.  This feels like a social take-out to me.  So, if there's still a chance that the HELPFUL THUG would become unhelpful because it's just a maneuver and not a social take-out, you should keep an eye out on a situation where the aspect is irrelevant:  like when the party attacks his friend, tries to take the Artifact he was tasked with getting, or if being Helpful is no longer relevant to his goals.

For instance, being tripped can be overcome with a role, if the players are actively trying to prevent the person from standing up.  If no-one is actively preventing that, then there is no roll - they just stand up.

On the other hand, as the GM you might have planned that into your adventure.  You just have to be careful with precedent.   Otherwise your player will be taking everyone out with his epic rapport roles.

[RedRobe]

The player wanted to use Rapport or Presence to get the kobold to go away or stop attacking folks, much like an Intimidate check in Pathfinder would have allowed. Could we have switched from attempting a maneuver to a full-on Social conflict? I'm still trying to wrap my head around the many options available in any given encounter.