Author Topic: My first character for review (Read 6309 times)

Wanderer · « **on:** May 30, 2017, 01:40:24 AM »

Edit: I've updated character builds according to thread discussion and further ideas.

This is the tentative draft of my first DFRPG character, done in two slightly different versions that draw power from opposite mystical sources b/c I cannot make up my mind about which one I prefer. To help me shape the concept I developed it in several different power levels ranging from 10 to 21/22 Refresh; however I assume the concept requires at least 15/16 Refresh to be any barely realized and 18/19 Refresh to have all required features more or less in place. Everything below that is just preparatory work. I welcome constructive suggestions and opinions, especially as it concerns Aspects and their wording.

Notable concept features that may be Aspect-worthy include: being a half-sidhe changeling and a sorcerer/wizard; drawing power from mortal magic, Faerie, and Lower (or Higher) powers without becoming any especially evil or righteous; being eager for mystical (and martial) power and amoral with it (and violence) but not really unhinged or corrupted by it; being brash, hot-tempered, and rebellious to authority but honorable and loyal to friends; often doing the right thing for various reasons but being no kind of moral paragon; being good with flashy, freeform magic and martial arts but bad with subtle, ritual magic and technology; being plagued by an hyperactive Murphyonic field and/or a magnet for mystical weirdness but not having other kinds of bad luck; being the chivalrous kind of lech; being a biker.

Version A

(click to show/hide)

Version B

(click to show/hide)

I avoided to buy Soulgaze despite being available for free since I deem it more trouble than it is worth. Conversely, if the character could have even more Refresh, additional powers that would fit the concept include: True Shapeshifting (NOT Glamours, despite Faerie ties), Swift Transition, and Wings, as well as removing the Item of Power limitation.

Sanctaphrax · « **Reply #1 on:** May 30, 2017, 05:50:29 AM »

Looks pretty good at a glance. I didn't check your math, though.

I do have one criticism, but it's not about the character proper. It's just that

Superb: Conviction, Discipline
Great: Fists, Lore
Good: Endurance, Might
Fair: Alertness, Athletics, Presence
Average: Rapport, Resources, Scholarship, Empathy, Intimidation

is a fair bit easier to read than

Alertness: Fair (+2)
Athletics: Fair (+2)
Conviction: Superb (+5)
Discipline: Superb (+5)
Empathy: Average (+1)
Endurance: Good (+3)
Fists: Great (+4)
Intimidation: Average (+1)
Lore: Great (+4)
Might: Good (+3)
Presence: Fair (+2)
Rapport: Average (+1)
Resources: Average (+1)
Scholarship: Average (+1)

Quote from: Wanderer on May 30, 2017, 01:40:24 AM

(I thought of adding something like "A Bane for Technology and A Magnet for Weirdness" to the Aspects but I'm unsure how to make it fit in the list) .

You could make it your Trouble, since your current Trouble doesn't seem essential.

Alternately, you could compress I KNOW NO LAW BUT MY OWN and THE THINGS I DO FOR FRIENDS into I KNOW NO LAW BUT FRIENDSHIP. Sounds cheesy as heck, but in a way I appreciate.

Quote from: Wanderer on May 30, 2017, 01:40:24 AM

At the highest power levels I left skill points unspent b/c I simply could not think of any way to use them that would fit the concept and the bloody pyramid system. The character is supposed to be bad, not interested, or have little use for certain skills and I already put points in a few other ones with considerable reluctance and distaste just to make the £$%& pyramid fit.

Why not take a bit of Weapons? Realistically, anyone who's Superb at hitting you with their bare hands will be at least minimally competent at hitting you with a knife.

Wanderer · « **Reply #2 on:** May 30, 2017, 06:34:23 AM »

Quote from: Sanctaphrax on May 30, 2017, 05:50:29 AM

Looks pretty good at a glance. I didn't check your math, though.

Well, I did check math with a character management program (DFRPG-CM) I found on the net.

You may have a point with skill-list readability on the forum but I found the way I used easier to manage when I wrote the character, and then I just copied and pasted my notes. I might rewrite my post the way you suggest when I get the time.

Quote

You could make it your Trouble, since your current Trouble doesn't seem essential.

Alternately, you could compress I KNOW NO LAW BUT MY OWN and THE THINGS I DO FOR FRIENDS into I KNOW NO LAW BUT FRIENDSHIP. Sounds cheesy as heck, but in a way I appreciate.

The Trouble I picked is supposed to signify power is the character's preferred tool, way of life, and main temptation, for good and bad. Hmm, perhaps I may rewrite the Aspects list this way, following your suggestions:

Template: Changeling Wizard
High Concept Aspect: Half-Sidhe Wizard
Trouble Aspect: A Bane for Technology and A Magnet for Weirdness
Background Aspect: A Warlock and A Gentleman
Rising Conflict Aspect: I Know No Law But Friendship
The Story Aspect: Not So Subtle, Still Quick to Anger
Guest Star Aspect: Power Is My Tool, My Calling, and My Temptation
Guest Star Redux Aspect: Shadow of Ithuriel/Occasional Pawn of the Archangels

What do you think ?

Quote

Why not take a bit of Weapons? Realistically, anyone who's Superb at hitting you with their bare hands will be at least minimally competent at hitting you with a knife.

I suppose so, but it would have little use in practice, barring the rare case of enchanted weapons too good not to be used, given the character's overwhelming focus on magic and unharmed combat as combat abilities. Then again, I acknowledge someone who trained in martial arts as extensively as the character may have inevitably picked up some minimal competence in melee weapons. I'm annoyed enough at the system for forcing me to put points in inappropriate skills like Burglary, Craftsmanship, and Investigation to complete the pyramid when the character is supposed to be terrible with technology. Unless perhaps such skills get reinterpreted to focus almost exclusively on low-tech uses and basic repair. But Guns and Driving looked even less appropriate, and the character is supposed to have no artistic aptitude. Unfortunately I found your suggestion of raising the skill ceiling and lowering the skill pool total too troublesome to implement, at least for now.

By the way, on second thoughts I suppose having Soulfire might justify including a vulnerability to unholy stuff in the Catch, for the sake of symmetry between the two versions of the character. Especially since the character is not righteous or saintly.

Taran · « **Reply #3 on:** May 30, 2017, 12:38:42 PM »

As a skill, I really like investigation. Obviously, if it doesn't fit the concept that's fine but I was just curious if your dislike for investigation is a mechanical or role play reason.

Wanderer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 30, 2017, 05:33:37 PM »

Quote from: Taran on May 30, 2017, 12:38:42 PM

As a skill, I really like investigation. Obviously, if it doesn't fit the concept that's fine but I was just curious if your dislike for investigation is a mechanical or role play reason.

Generally speaking, I like Investigation too and find it somewhat useful, albeit much less so for magical characters that are often able to substitute it with Lore, esp. if they have The Sight. I only dislike the pyramid system kinda forcing its use for the present character. Besides the limited usefulness for mages, it looks inappropriate since the character is supposed to be terrible with technology due to an overactive Murphyonic field. Admittedly, this is only a problem in CSI-esque modern environments where the skill seems to be critically reliant on advanced equipment. In low-tech environments or the Nevernever, the skill is mostly supposed to be used the way Sherlock Holmes did it, with scarcely a problem for gremlin characters, hence no problem for me. As a matter of fact, Investigation is more or less the skill I find least troublesome among the concept-inappropriate ones, because low-tech uses are relatively important and easy to come by. Burglary, Craftsmanship, or potentially speaking Driving and Guns feel worse choices.

Sanctaphrax · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2017, 02:39:50 AM »

Quote from: Wanderer on May 30, 2017, 06:34:23 AM

Template: Changeling Wizard
High Concept Aspect: Half-Sidhe Wizard
Trouble Aspect: A Bane for Technology and A Magnet for Weirdness
Background Aspect: A Warlock and A Gentleman
Rising Conflict Aspect: I Know No Law But Friendship
The Story Aspect: Not So Subtle, Still Quick to Anger
Guest Star Aspect: Power Is My Tool, My Calling, and My Temptation
Guest Star Redux Aspect: Shadow of Ithuriel/Occasional Pawn of the Archangels

What do you think ?

Looks good to me.

Wanderer · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2017, 08:05:33 PM »

I had another idea for the character's personality and Aspects. Since he is heavily inspired by anime, where lecherous characters are common, and an hyperactive libido is a trait that goes well with other aspects of a passionate nature such as pugnaciousness and a drive to be the best at magic and/or martial arts, I may make the character a shameless lech or all-around hedonist too (I'm just hesitant to make him a serious drug user, since I feel this might conflict with his otherwise driven nature). Although to fit with his honorable nature, the chivalrous kind. So I may adjust the Aspects list as follow:

Template: Changeling Wizard
High Concept Aspect: Half-Sidhe Wizard
Trouble Aspect: A Bane for Technology and A Magnet for Weirdness
Background Aspect: Power Is My Tool, My Calling, and My Temptation
Rising Conflict Aspect: I Know No Law But Friendship and Honor
The Story Aspect: Not So Subtle, Still Quick to Anger
Guest Star Aspect: Chivalrous Libertine
Guest Star Redux Aspect: Shadow of Ithuriel/Occasional Pawn of the Archangels

Wanderer · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2017, 09:58:53 PM »

Since a few magical items slots are free for all characters, I might as well fill them. But my dislike of ritual trappings and paraphernalia makes me creatively challenged for this issue, so I welcome suggestions. I suppose such items should reinforce the concept, such as providing all-around power or control boosts spead among most or all Evocation elements, or supplementing supernatural abilities in areas the character would be interested in, such as swift travel (quite possibly through the Nevernever), form-flexible shapeshifting, buffing physical attributes, or defense. Any items should be of the kind that is very hard to steal from the character, short of making him unconscious or powerless.

g33k · « **Reply #8 on:** June 01, 2017, 12:10:47 AM »

Quote from: Wanderer on May 30, 2017, 01:40:24 AM

... drawing power from mortal magic, Faerie, and Lower (or Higher) powers without becoming any especially evil or righteous ...

... avoided to buy Soulgaze since I deem it more trouble than it is worth...

I'll call out these ones, specifically...

Mortal magic is a tool, useful for good or ill. It's my understanding though that The Sight and Soulgaze both come automatically with being a mortal wizard with Evocation and/or Thaumaturgy; half-fae changeling doesn't let you escape from either one. Or have I misunderstood the rules on these points?

The others, though... faerie-sponsored magic, "higher" and "lower" powers... those tools ultimately belong to others than the nominal wielder, and in the end serve those other beings. You don't GET Hellfire & the like if the Fallen don't see you as likely to fall, yourself; anyone who doesn't fall into temptation will get extra temptations strewn in their path, get prodded and provoked until they DO fall. Like Soulfire, it's not something you can learn on your own; you need an unearthly agent -- generally an angel (or Fallen) -- who WANTS you to have this ability, for THEIR agenda.

The idea that you can be a pillar of independence and still carry all these shackles of other Powers' making... notsomuchso. They are "power" but they won't ever be YOUR power, not really.

Of course, YMMV! Assuming you have a gaming-table in agreement with your take on these... then I'd be incorrect.

Wanderer · « **Reply #9 on:** June 01, 2017, 12:25:53 PM »

Quote from: g33k on June 01, 2017, 12:10:47 AM

Mortal magic is a tool, useful for good or ill. It's my understanding though that The Sight and Soulgaze both come automatically with being a mortal wizard with Evocation and/or Thaumaturgy; half-fae changeling doesn't let you escape from either one. Or have I misunderstood the rules on these points?

As far as I can tell, Soulgaze is an optional buy for sorcerers/wizards (YS, p. 174: "If you have the Sight, above, you may take Soulgaze for free if you so choose. It's not mandatory"). I chose not to buy it even at no cost since I regard powers that only work once for individual more trouble than they are worth, doubly so given the side effects of the Sight. If its use were somehow repeatable, it might be different, but as it stands, I do not bother. As it concerns the Sight, you may notice I changed the Template of the character from "changeling sorcerer" (who is not under any obligation to have the Sight, it is an optional buy for them) to "changeling wizard" (who indeed has the power as mandatory) in different power-level builds depending on whether he got the Refresh to buy the Sight or not. Fact is, for this character the Sight is a lesser-priority power to have than other stuff on his sheet (Evocation, Thaumaturgy, Sponsored Magic, Supernatural physical attributes and Toughness abilities), and he was developed accordingly. This character is a fighter more than a detective, and more at ease with the flashier, more 'physical' aspects of magic than the subtler and more spiritual ones, esp. early in his arc. He got the Aspects to represent that, too.

Quote

The others, though... faerie-sponsored magic, "higher" and "lower" powers... those tools ultimately belong to others than the nominal wielder, and in the end serve those other beings. You don't GET Hellfire & the like if the Fallen don't see you as likely to fall, yourself; anyone who doesn't fall into temptation will get extra temptations strewn in their path, get prodded and provoked until they DO fall. Like Soulfire, it's not something you can learn on your own; you need an unearthly agent -- generally an angel (or Fallen) -- who WANTS you to have this ability, for THEIR agenda.

The idea that you can be a pillar of independence and still carry all these shackles of other Powers' making... notsomuchso. They are "power" but they won't ever be YOUR power, not really.

Well, from a Doylist viewpoint, the narrative tension between the character's independent attitude and his ties to the Faerie Courts and Heaven/Hell is supposed to be part of his long-term arc and the source of various potential plot hooks, as well as the dichotomy between his drive for ever more magical power and his aspirations to freedom. From a Watsonian viewpoint, these external power sources were not exactly sought after by the character, they were thrusted upon him by his blood ties to a Sidhe and by getting a Denarian shadow or being gifted by an Archangel for their own ineffable reasons. Once he got them, however, he was simply too practical, power-greedy, and living in the present to give up these additional sources of magical might just because of their questionable origin and potential strings attached. He expects to be able and pay access to these external power sources by doing the occasional favor or service to Faerie and Heaven/Hell. He plans to be their freelance agent every so often but never their permanent slave, which would be OK for his self-image and sense of honor. Those Powers help him, so it is good to do them a few favors once in a while, it is complete and lasting servitude he would object to. As it concerns potential conflicts between these various Powers' agendas and his own, or other obligations he may have, they shall be dealt with the best he can if and when they occur.

g33k · « **Reply #10 on:** June 01, 2017, 08:36:06 PM »

Quote from: Wanderer on June 01, 2017, 12:25:53 PM

As far as I can tell, Soulgaze is an optional buy for sorcerers/wizards (YS, p. 174: "If you have the Sight, above, you may take Soulgaze for free if you so choose. It's not mandatory") ...

OK, my mistake; I thought both were "all wizards" non-optionally (I think the RPG may depart from DF-stories / WoJ canon on these ... ? ) .

Quote from: Wanderer on June 01, 2017, 12:25:53 PM

Well, from a Doylist viewpoint, the narrative tension between the character's independent attitude and his ties to the Faerie Courts and Heaven/Hell is supposed to be part of his long-term arc and the source of various potential plot hooks, as well as the dichotomy between his drive for ever more magical power and his aspirations to freedom.

Fair enough!

Though I note that's a *LOT* of different powers in-play; IIRC not even Dresden himself had simultaneous access to Hellfire and Soulfire! I'd be Doylistically worried that all these heavy-duty obligations might result in MOST of his time being spent on the agendas & conflicts of those other Powers, and less on his own agendas & motivations.

Quote from: Wanderer on June 01, 2017, 12:25:53 PM

... He expects to be able and pay access to these external power sources by doing the occasional favor or service to Faerie and Heaven/Hell. He plans to be their freelance agent every so often but never their permanent slave, which would be OK for his self-image and sense of honor. Those Powers help him, so it is good to do them a few favors once in a while, it is complete and lasting servitude he would object to. As it concerns potential conflicts between these various Powers' agendas and his own, or other obligations he may have, they shall be dealt with the best he can if and when they occur.

Faeries like those bargains, favor-for-service. Occasionally, it even works out well for the mortal involved... although the further up the Fae food-chain you go, the less likely it becomes that a bargain will seem like "a good idea" (or even "not a horrible idea") by the time you're done!

Pixies? A bargain a day keeps trouble at bay!
Faerie nobles? Oh CRAP, what did I do??!?

Heaven and Hell... mmmm... those get a bit less clear-cut.

The only "bargain" that Hell is interested in is the one that gets them your soul (or some sort of access to it, e.g. part of your True Name; or you doing (or permitting) something likely to tempt/corrupt you or another person), and as Burke noted The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, so taking a "deal" to just do "nothing" can be effectively a complicit action.

Heaven... apparently doesn't MAKE that kind of bargain, or demand those kinds of services. They got that ineffable thing goin' on.
They apparently nudge the "right person for the job" in the direction of "a job that needs doing," and just MAYBE if they see you're doing a Good job (note the cap-G) you end up with Soulfire or some other sort of "reward". But -- being ineffable and all -- their Reward is one likely to be useful in other Heavenly endeavors and/or to end up doing Heaven's Work in other ways. They're ruddy bastards that way!

Sanctaphrax · « **Reply #11 on:** June 01, 2017, 10:24:54 PM »

The Sight and Soulgaze are mandatory for Wizards. They're part of the template. Ignoring that should be pretty harmless, though. And non-wizard casters can have one, both, or neither.

As for Soulfire, I'm not sure the angels have any authority over its use. They can choose not to give it to you, but once it's given I don't think they can take it back.

Wanderer · « **Reply #12 on:** June 02, 2017, 09:00:56 AM »

Quote from: g33k on June 01, 2017, 08:36:06 PM

Though I note that's a *LOT* of different powers in-play; IIRC not even Dresden himself had simultaneous access to Hellfire and Soulfire! I'd be Doylistically worried that all these heavy-duty obligations might result in MOST of his time being spent on the agendas & conflicts of those other Powers, and less on his own agendas & motivations.

Well, I may point out that even at the highest power-level builds the character is assumed to have at most two different, mostly thematically compatible, types of Sponsored Magic: either (Unseelie Magic AND Hellfire) OR (Seelie Magic AND Soulfire) according to alternative versions, never Hellfire and Soulfire simultaneously. I think this is potentially manageable in terms of ties and obligations, also b/c the two power source sets tend to favor decay/destruction or growth/creation, respectively.

Even in the theoretical case the character is developed beyond the 20/21 Refresh threshold, in all likelihood I'd invest the additional Refresh mostly to round up the power set with more concept- and Sidhe-appropriate inborn Supernatural Powers, which the current build downplays a little. Say, a 30/31 Refresh version of the character would likely be:

Claws (-1)
Evocation (-3)
Human Guise (+0)
Inhuman Recovery (-2)
Inhuman Speed (-2)
Inhuman Strength (-2)
Inhuman Toughness (-2)
The Catch (cold iron, trappings of Winter/Summer, and unholy/holy stuff) (+3)
Refinement (Evocation - element x2, Evocation – specialty x3) (-5)
Sponsored Magic (Soulfire) (-3) OR Sponsored Magic (Hellfire) (-2)
Seelie Magic (-2) OR Unseelie Magic (-2)
Thaumaturgy (-3)
The Sight (-1)
Swift Transition (-2)
True Shapeshifting (-4)
Wings (-1)

Quote

Faeries like those bargains, favor-for-service. Occasionally, it even works out well for the mortal involved... although the further up the Fae food-chain you go, the less likely it becomes that a bargain will seem like "a good idea" (or even "not a horrible idea") by the time you're done!

Pixies? A bargain a day keeps trouble at bay!
Faerie nobles? Oh CRAP, what did I do??!?

No contention here, although I may point out the character is supposed to gain access to Seelie/Unseelie Magic because of his half-Sidhe heritage, with little bargaining with the Faerie Courts being necessary to get the power in the first place. Once the character goes into debt compel to tap additional power a few times, then it is another matter entirely.

Quote

The only "bargain" that Hell is interested in is the one that gets them your soul (or some sort of access to it, e.g. part of your True Name; or you doing (or permitting) something likely to tempt/corrupt you or another person), and as Burke noted The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, so taking a "deal" to just do "nothing" can be effectively a complicit action.

A couple things to point out: first, the character is supposed to gain access to Hellfire because he got a Denarian shadow, much like it happened to Harry. As far as I can tell this avenue involves little direct bargaining and favor-trading with the Fallen to gain the power in the first place. Much like with the Faerie Courts, however, once the character goes into debt compel a few times, it is another matter entirely. Second, in fiction and RPG the cases concern a minority when a deal with the forces of Hell directly and immediately involves the end-game of a soul-trade in exchange for any significant power, favor, or service coming from Below. There is a rich lore about the cases when a whole lot of different bargains, favors, and services are traded instead for a good while.

I may also remark this character is the kind of person that is not much concerned at all about the final disposition of his soul in the Hereafter, if any (he's not a religious person, he lives in the present, and he may expect to live a very long time barring a violent death because of his faerie and wizard heritage), although he does care about his self-image and honor. Certainly corruption may be the end-goal of the Fallen, and dealing with them entails the risk of advancing the cause of evil one way or another, but to do so by minimizing such issues is where the challenge is all about.

Quote

Heaven... apparently doesn't MAKE that kind of bargain, or demand those kinds of services. They got that ineffable thing goin' on.
They apparently nudge the "right person for the job" in the direction of "a job that needs doing," and just MAYBE if they see you're doing a Good job (note the cap-G) you end up with Soulfire or some other sort of "reward". But -- being ineffable and all -- their Reward is one likely to be useful in other Heavenly endeavors and/or to end up doing Heaven's Work in other ways. They're ruddy bastards that way!

That's more or less how I expect dealing with the Sponsor would go in Heaven's case. I may also point out that according to PP Soulfire has a different way (soul stress) of paying for overextending one's credit at the Sponsor bank than the usual debt compel.

Wanderer · « **Reply #13 on:** June 02, 2017, 09:14:00 AM »

Quote from: Sanctaphrax on June 01, 2017, 10:24:54 PM

As for Soulfire, I'm not sure the angels have any authority over its use. They can choose not to give it to you, but once it's given I don't think they can take it back.

As far as I can tell, any Sponsor is not free to revoke access to their power arbitrarily or at will. They have leeway to impose sanctions and restrictions if the character does go into debt, or directly tries to damage them or their agenda. But otherwise the gift of power, once given, cannot be revoked. The character paid for it with whatever Refresh represents, after all.

Quantus · « **Reply #14 on:** June 02, 2017, 12:30:52 PM »

Forgive me it's been a long time since i looked at that part of the rules, How does Soulfire Work mechanically? By the novels I'd expect it to be different than standard Sponsored magic, since you have to provide it fuel (as opposed to Hellfire). Similarly I'd expect Heaven, more than most Sponsors, to be able to be bound by the consequences of their own Choice to grant the Power. On the Other hand, they are pretty quick to revoke Sword of the Cross power, so can a Soulfire Wielder "Fall" like an angel can if they abuse their granted power?

Ive always wondered: Does the gift of Soul-fire make you a Saint?

Author Topic: My first character for review (Read 6309 times)

Wanderer

My first character for review

Sanctaphrax

Re: My first character for review

Wanderer

Re: My first character for review

Taran

Re: My first character for review

Wanderer

Re: My first character for review

Sanctaphrax

Re: My first character for review

Wanderer

Re: My first character for review

Wanderer

Re: My first character for review

g33k

Re: My first character for review

Wanderer

Re: My first character for review

g33k

Re: My first character for review

Sanctaphrax

Re: My first character for review

Wanderer

Re: My first character for review

Wanderer

Re: My first character for review

Quantus

Re: My first character for review