Has anyone put Nic's plan togther?

[groinkick]

Nicodemus wanted the Archive.  He now wants the Artifacts.  Are the two connected or separate?  Could Mavra obtaining the Book of Kemmler be a connection? What theories do you for what Nicodemus is up to? 

[Mr. Death]

I don't think Nicodemus has "a" plan. As old as he is, he must have learned a long time ago not to put all your eggs in one handbasket, so he no doubt has several concurrent plans. They might well all be headed toward the same ultimate goal, but I think it's more likely we've seen multiple, different plans he's attempting rather than seeing steps in one cohesive plan -- especially considering those steps keep getting foiled.

Given Nicodemus doesn't appear to have any players involved in Dead Beat, I don't think the Word of Kemmler is at all connected.

[Mira]

Nicodemus wanted the Archive.  He now wants the Artifacts.  Are the two connected or separate?  Could Mavra obtaining the Book of Kemmler be a connection? What theories do you for what Nicodemus is up to?

I would be shocked if there wasn't a connection between what Mavra was up to and what Nic was up to.  It  would make sense that both sides would want to gather as much WMD as possible before the final show down..  I wouldn't be shocked if there wasn't an all out effort to corrupt Harry or get to him in some way..  I could see poor little Maggie being the object they go after once more to get to Harry.. This time though any one trying to get to her will have to go through Mouse first..

[groinkick]

Given Nicodemus doesn't appear to have any players involved in Dead Beat, I don't think the Word of Kemmler is at all connected.

Yeah that's a valid point.  I was just wondering if there is some sort of group (black circle) or whatever that will all come together towards the end.  That many of the things Harry has been up against are all connected, and working together in separate cells to throw off people (and readers) to what's going on.  Of course I have also theorized that there are a few different story arcs that will each be addressed in the 3 BAT books.  I think the latter is more likely but find the other interesting as well.

[groinkick]

I would be shocked if there wasn't a connection between what Mavra was up to and what Nic was up to.  It  would make sense that both sides would want to gather as much WMD as possible before the final show down..  I wouldn't be shocked if there wasn't an all out effort to corrupt Harry or get to him in some way..  I could see poor little Maggie being the object they go after once more to get to Harry.. This time though any one trying to get to her will have to go through Mouse first..

I actually think that her being away at school, with Mouse is Jim's way of kind of making her a non issue for Dresden.  Kind of like the angelic protection for Michael's family.  If there was a constant threat he'd not really be able to be an effective Knight, nor would Harry be effective at what he's doing.

Perhaps there is an arms race of sorts and Nicodemus is not at all aligned with Mavra but they are both arming up for whatever is going to happen.  Perhaps she's planning on raising an army when the chaos unfolds.

[Mr. Death]

In addition to Mouse, I could see Mab keeping an eye on Maggie and dispensing wrath on anyone who takes a shot at her. Her duties to her knight would naturally include seeing to the safety of his progeny, particularly if he can't be there because of her orders.

Not to mention Harry's own reputation. As Michael put it, the supernatural world got a pretty good demonstration of what happens when you try to mess with Harry's daughter.

So yeah, I'd say Maggie's probably reasonably "safe" while she's not on-camera. And considering Butcher didn't want Susan to be an always-to-be-rescued Lois Lane type, I doubt he'd keep making Maggie a MacGuffin for Harry to chase down and protect.

[Arjan]

Nicodemus wanted the Archive.  He now wants the Artifacts.  Are the two connected or separate?  Could Mavra obtaining the Book of Kemmler be a connection? What theories do you for what Nicodemus is up to?

You mean what delusion Anduriel sold him? Do you really think it is that important 

[groinkick]

You mean what delusion Anduriel sold him? Do you really think it is that important 

Uh yes? lol

[jonas]

insure history repeats itself in a dark parody of the second coming while also preventing reality from spinning off kilter.

[Arjan]

I don't think Nicodemus has "a" plan. As old as he is, he must have learned a long time ago not to put all your eggs in one handbasket, so he no doubt has several concurrent plans. They might well all be headed toward the same ultimate goal, but I think it's more likely we've seen multiple, different plans he's attempting rather than seeing steps in one cohesive plan -- especially considering those steps keep getting foiled.

Given Nicodemus doesn't appear to have any players involved in Dead Beat, I don't think the Word of Kemmler is at all connected.

Nicodemus wouldn't appear in dead beat to do a darkhallow even if the information was given to him on a silver plate. Anduriel would not like it.

[Drikonn]

I have a feeling Nicodemus is going to turn out to be instrumental in bringing down the big bad. He's making choices that a "moral" person wouldn't because someone has to be willing to throwaway a million lives to save seven billion. While Harry will ultimately tell him to take a flying leap of a high building, I think he's playing the chess master role. Why would he want to save the world? Because he lives in it and being a mindslave or a corpse isn't an option. The world needs to keep turning if he's going to enslave it himself.

[forumghost]

Nah, I think Nicko is the ones that's gonna fuck everything up. Remember, Jim's plan was for 20 Books, with a Denarian Book every 5.

Which means that Nick is in for one final run before the BAT hits. I think that in Book 20 he's going to win, and that event will be what sparks the BAT.

[Zaphodess]

Nah, I think Nicko is the ones that's gonna fuck everything up. Remember, Jim's plan was for 20 Books, with a Denarian Book every 5.

Which means that Nick is in for one final run before the BAT hits. I think that in Book 20 he's going to win, and that event will be what sparks the BAT.

Interesting idea. There's this WoJ that Faith Astor from Restoration of Faith will be crucial to starting the BAT. Maybe she got one of the Coins and that's what sends her on the road.

[Drikonn]

I think it'll actually be him trying to stop it and subsequently getting foiled by the dumbass wizard that makes a habit of kicking out tent poles and looking smug about it

[Snark Knight]

Nicodemus wouldn't appear in dead beat to do a darkhallow even if the information was given to him on a silver plate. Anduriel would not like it.

I'm sure Anduriel wouldn't like his host getting that powerful, true - but I don't think someone without inherent use of magic could do enough necromancy to work the Darkhallow, either.

You mean what delusion Anduriel sold him? Do you really think it is that important 

Anduriel might manipulate him about tactics-level decisions for expediency and to shape an even more corrupted host (like 'kill your daughter for the sake of the mission') but I don't think it follows that Nic is duped about the broad cause they're working toward.

I think from Nic and Deirdre's dialogues, the general outline of their thinking is pretty much analogous to how Cowl rationalized pursuing the Darkhallow (presumably because Kumori was within earshot) - the established order is so fragile SOMEBODY is going to succeed in overturning it, so it might as well be the less bad option. I think the Denarians who willingly cooperate with their Fallen believe Hell's apocalypse stands the best chance of averting the even worse Outsider version, so they're gathering power for that cause. The Archive's functions in coordinating the Oblivion War could easily have been adapted to tracking down Outsider cultists for assassination, and Hades was quite open about confirming the artifacts were weapons.

The plague plot in DM might even have been connected somehow - perhaps culling back the mortal population would have hurt their rivals (fewer summoners for Outsiders, less food for the Red Court, fewer practitioners for the Fomor to kidnap for their plans) in addition to the vague description that the Denarians get stronger by spreading suffering.