Poll

Assuming he is a wizard, who is Cowl?

Other
13 (4.4%)
An Unmet Character
47 (15.8%)
Arthur Langtry
8 (2.7%)
Joseph "Listens-to-Wind"
0 (0%)
Ebenezer McCoy
4 (1.3%)
Simon Pietrovich
111 (37.4%)
Rashid the Gatekeeper
1 (0.3%)
Gregori Cristos
10 (3.4%)
Justin DuMorne
31 (10.4%)
Heinrich Kemmler
6 (2%)
Aleron LaFortier
3 (1%)
Samuel Peabody
2 (0.7%)
Mister
4 (1.3%)
"Mac" McAnally
2 (0.7%)
Time Travelling Harry Dresden
12 (4%)
Parallel Universe Harry Dresden
23 (7.7%)
Bluebeard
1 (0.3%)
Chandler
0 (0%)
Etienne the Enchanter
0 (0%)
Gomez (sleeping off a potion)
0 (0%)
Luciozzi (on sabbatical)
0 (0%)
Bill Meyers
0 (0%)
Klaus Schneider
2 (0.7%)
Thorsen
0 (0%)
Simmons
0 (0%)
Kostikos
0 (0%)
MacFee (doing a passable impersonation of a man)
0 (0%)
The Warden from Bremen
0 (0%)
The Original Merlin
4 (1.3%)
Montjoy (research trip in the Yucatán)
1 (0.3%)
Binder
0 (0%)
Leonid Kravos
0 (0%)
Victor Sells
1 (0.3%)
Aristedes
0 (0%)
Lucky
0 (0%)
Martha Liberty (doing a passable impersonation of a man)
1 (0.3%)
The Mailman from Storm Front
3 (1%)
Grevane
0 (0%)
Anthony Forthill
1 (0.3%)
Gregory Taggart (because why not)
0 (0%)
Father Paolo
1 (0.3%)
Benson Hagglethorn
0 (0%)
Larry Fowler
1 (0.3%)
Billy Sells
2 (0.7%)
Detective Green
0 (0%)
Nicholas Christian
0 (0%)
Malcolm Dresden
0 (0%)
Greg Beckitt
0 (0%)
Mike the Mechanic
2 (0.7%)
Richard/Rich/Rick/Dick
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 297

Author Topic: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]  (Read 184198 times)

Offline DonBugen

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #165 on: July 21, 2017, 01:31:27 PM »
I’ve been thinking about the Dark Hallow.  The Dark Hallow doesn’t flatly kill people by itself; rather, its aftereffect creates a vacuum in which life energy is naturally ripped away from anything nearby in order to fill the void.  Dresden explains to Butters exactly what the energy consumed is, and that the loss of life doesn’t happen immediately during the spell, but afterwards to fill the magical void.  So, theoretically, it could be possible to do it without causing loss of life.  And if it’s as simple as that, it’s actually a pretty stupid idea to do it in such a densely packed area as Chicago, where any number of things can interrupt the very delicate spell.

However, I don’t think it’s as simple as that.  Bob tells Harry in Cold Days that probably only Cowl knew that the rite had to have been performed on Halloween, so it’s not likely that Grevaine chose Kendall College as the site of the rite just because he was antsy to get it done.  Rather, it’s because there’s a huge amount of energy required to get the spell going, and heavily-populated Chicago is probably necessary to get that energy moving.  Most of Dead Beat is spent with Harry chasing the actions of the Kemmlerites ‘priming the pump’ – tracking the necromantic killings in Chicago, summoning the hunter spirits from the Kahokian artifacts at the museum, and experiencing Chicago descend into chaos with the blackout.

When preparing Sue for her epic ride, Dresden tells Butters that the spell requires a massive amount of “dark power” to absorb.  He lists four sources that the Kemmlerites are using for absorption – their own necromantic energy animating corpses, the warrior spirits summoned with the Erlking, the growing fear and tension from all of the mortals in Chicago, and the turbulence from the last several years.  All of this creates enough energy to start the vortex and be absorbed.  The vacuum effect would strip all life for a mile in all directions.

If Dresden travelled out to, say, Wyoming or Montana, to do the rite, I don’t think he could get the same amount of free energy.  There’s no mortals to terrify, few dead spirits, and no recent turbulent activity.  A remote island is actually worse, as it’s surrounded by water and thus only has its own bubble of magical energy.  I think there’s only two places he could do it – Chichen Itza during the mass slaughter, and Demonreach.  Chichen Itza wouldn’t be used for two reasons, being (a) the Red Court could easily have bumped Dresden’s shoulder when noticing a giant vortex coming down close to them, and (b) Maggie would have likely been killed from the aftermath.

Dresden knows that the island is dark, and knows that it’s a node and likely has the amount of power he needs – but at this point in the story, he doesn’t know what the island is.  I could see him having the Scooby Gang take him out there, telling them to sail a few miles out, and performing the rite.  It would seem like the least problematic option.  But by absorbing even part of the essence of what is trapped down there…  Dresden would, for certain, be Changed.

By the way, rereading the section of Dead Beat reminded me that there’s one other similarity that Cowl has to Dresden:  at the final battle under the vortex, Cowl hits Dresden with a force punch that knocks him down, a spell which Dresden was surprised that he didn’t feel a gathering of energy for.  Later in the books, Harry creates force rings which hold kinetic energy and release force punches without gathering energy.  Dresden is the only one who we’ve ever seen use a talisman in this way.  Slightly suspicious.

Offline Shift8

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #166 on: July 21, 2017, 01:59:04 PM »


Dresden knows that the island is dark, and knows that it’s a node and likely has the amount of power he needs – but at this point in the story, he doesn’t know what the island is.  I could see him having the Scooby Gang take him out there, telling them to sail a few miles out, and performing the rite.  It would seem like the least problematic option.  But by absorbing even part of the essence of what is trapped down there…  Dresden would, for certain, be Changed.



Please show me where in the book or WOJ we know for certain Dresden would be morally altered by this act. This seems like pure speculation to me.

Offline jonas

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #167 on: July 21, 2017, 02:00:47 PM »
Please show me where in the book or WOJ we know for certain Dresden would be morally altered by this act. This seems like pure speculation to me.
Gatekeeper straight up says so in SmF.
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Offline Shift8

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #168 on: July 21, 2017, 02:05:20 PM »
Gatekeeper straight up says so in SmF.

Do you know what chapter? I am searching my book on ibooks but it only turned up one mention of the GK int he entire book.

Offline jonas

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #169 on: July 21, 2017, 02:07:57 PM »
Do you know what chapter? I am searching my book on ibooks but it only turned up one mention of the GK int he entire book.
TC when Harry arrives with Molly and Thomas on the island Rashid is hidden on the what's up dock. I couldn't tell you what CH.
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Offline Shift8

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #170 on: July 21, 2017, 02:15:56 PM »
TC when Harry arrives with Molly and Thomas on the island Rashid is hidden on the what's up dock. I couldn't tell you what CH.

He states Dresden is years away from being able to do so. Which objectively means that it is possible to do so without being altered.

Offline jonas

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #171 on: July 21, 2017, 02:19:28 PM »
He states Dresden is years away from being able to do so. Which objectively means that it is possible to do so without being altered.
And if your paying attention to Don's post you notice he specifically says 'at this point in the story' he's talking about before cold days when Harry learned what the island does. If harry had used a DH before CD he wouldn't have known. Your arguing a non-germane point there sir.
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Offline Shift8

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #172 on: July 21, 2017, 02:21:34 PM »
And if your paying attention to Don's post you notice he specifically says 'at this point in the story' he's talking about before cold days when Harry learned what the island does. If harry had used a DH before CD he wouldn't have known. Your arguing a non-germane point there sir.

This is why I started a separate thread. My idea here is not limited exclusively to that specific point of time.

But this gatekeeper statement still proves that it is possible. And that getting ready is just a matter of years in the keepers estimation.

Offline jonas

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #173 on: July 21, 2017, 02:25:20 PM »
This is why I started a separate thread. My idea here is not limited exclusively to that specific point of time.

But this gatekeeper statement still proves that it is possible. And that getting ready is just a matter of years in the keepers estimation.
give or take 3-4 hundred, or thousand, who knows?
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Offline Shift8

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #174 on: July 21, 2017, 02:28:54 PM »
give or take 3-4 hundred, or thousand, who knows?

Given the GK's knowledge, and the fast that IIRC wizards life hundreds, not thousands of years, I think he meant alot sooner than that.

Also when someone says years, they usually mean a length of time less than a decade. Or you would just say your "decades, or centuries" away from being ready.

Offline jonas

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #175 on: July 21, 2017, 02:35:06 PM »
Given the GK's knowledge, and the fast that IIRC wizards life hundreds, not thousands of years, I think he meant alot sooner than that.

Also when someone says years, they usually mean a length of time less than a decade. Or you would just say your "decades, or centuries" away from being ready.
Ok well your entitled to that opinion, just remember everybody else is entitled to theirs too. Like i'm of the opinion someone whose as ridiculously 'old' as the GK and the fact his time info funneling may mean he views time entirely different, means he probably doesn't think too deep on measuring it.
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Offline DonBugen

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #176 on: July 21, 2017, 03:05:09 PM »
Shift8 - yeah, it actually did start as pure speculation, but Jonas makes an excellent point.  When the Gatekeeper warns Harry in Turn Coat, he specifically does reference that drawing on the power could change him, and that he's not ready. "Do not tap into the power of this place's well.  You are years away from being able to handle such a thing without being altered by it."  It's true that this does mean that it's possible for Harry to draw on it and not  be changed, but I don't think that the Gatekeeper was counting on Harry taking that power, swirling it into a vortex, and drinking it to dramatically change his being into becoming a god.  Quite simply, using it for a working might change him.  Using it to form himself into a higher form of being would likely change him even more.

And yes, this is all still conjecture.  But it's good conjecture, backed up by solid fact and logical conclusions.  The best sort.  In any case, I don't think that Jim would have had a loophole so big that anyone could just do the Dark Hallow for free without negative consequence as long as they put in a Batman-sized level of planning.

Offline jonas

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #177 on: July 21, 2017, 03:08:18 PM »
Quote
put in a Batman-sized level of planning
these emoji buttons don't work for me directly, but suffice it to say I literally laughed til I cried there.
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Offline Shift8

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #178 on: July 21, 2017, 03:13:02 PM »
Shift8 - yeah, it actually did start as pure speculation, but Jonas makes an excellent point.  When the Gatekeeper warns Harry in Turn Coat, he specifically does reference that drawing on the power could change him, and that he's not ready. "Do not tap into the power of this place's well.  You are years away from being able to handle such a thing without being altered by it."  It's true that this does mean that it's possible for Harry to draw on it and not  be changed, but I don't think that the Gatekeeper was counting on Harry taking that power, swirling it into a vortex, and drinking it to dramatically change his being into becoming a god.  Quite simply, using it for a working might change him.  Using it to form himself into a higher form of being would likely change him even more.

And yes, this is all still conjecture.  But it's good conjecture, backed up by solid fact and logical conclusions.  The best sort.  In any case, I don't think that Jim would have had a loophole so big that anyone could just do the Dark Hallow for free without negative consequence as long as they put in a Batman-sized level of planning.

I would actually think it would be necessary for the DH not to alter people, otherwise it would be useless and no one would attempt it. No point in gaining power if your persona is so changed you forgot what you came to grocery store for.

Offline jonas

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Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #179 on: July 21, 2017, 03:18:04 PM »
I would actually think it would be necessary for the DH not to alter people, otherwise it would be useless and no one would attempt it. No point in gaining power if your persona is so changed you forgot what you came to grocery store for.
But nobodies ever used it, technically even Kemmler doesn't know for sure what would happen in the end, he only presumed. Maybe it is useless and crazy but nobody knows that?
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.