Black Court Vampire PC

[Anubissama]

So I have been toying with the idea of a Blampire PC character, but they seem vastly to costly in terms of refresh, even on Submerged.

Here is a list of powers I see necessary for a Blampire:

Living Dead - 1 for obvious reasons

Strange Sense -1 night vision, smelling blood, and hearing hearts pumping

Domination -2 to make Reinfields

Gaseous Form -3 as presented by Marva

Human Guise -0 at least fresh Blampires are mostly human looking

Supernatural Speed -4 Blampires are described as moving faster then the eye can see

Supernatural Strength - 4 and they have the strength to go with it

Here are powers I see as optional for Blampires:

Claws -1 with a trapping for Fangs, since I don' really see Fangs being useful in a normal fist fight, I would say that the trapping should give a bonus to damage while grappling, where fangs can actually be useful. They are optional in my opinion since we never actually get a description in the books saying that Blampires have fangs, and if you are really in to it, you can pierce skin with normal human teeth especially if you have Supernatural Strength.

Addictive Saliva -1 not sure on this one, I can't recall anyone being sexually aroused by Blampires feeding on them be it in the Files of Bram Stokers book, the orgasmic nature of vampire bites seems to be a modern addition to the myth

Spider Walk -1 Dracula does it in Stokers book, so I guess its something they can do

Cloak of Shadows -1 again, Dracula can disappear in the shadows, we haven't seen a Blampire do it in the Files, unless you want to count Mavra's double sudden appearance in Blood Rites

Swift Transition - 1 no base for that in both books but would make sens for them to be able to do it

Blood Drinker -1 obviously they drink blood, but what give Blampires the power is the death they cause by it, and they don't seem to gain any powers of having blood in there belly like Red Court Vampires

Feeding Dependency +2 again not really sure if they HAVE to drink blood or just get power from it so if they want to get stronger they have to kill but they don't have to necessary do it, I added it mostly because of the +2 since a Blampire is enough of a costly build.

So this make a Blampire build cost between 15 to 19 Refresh, the biggest chance to regain some of that is by the Catch, since Blampires have a bunch and they are well known:

The Catch needs to be between 6 to 10 refresh worth:

- no supernatural powers in Sunlight - yes, in Bram Stoker's Dracula, the Prince of Darkness walks around the daylight without bigger problems he just isn't able to aces his powers, the falling to dust effect was invented in the black and white film Nosferatu

- Holly Object - when carried by someone with Faith in that particular object, Marva doesn't seem to have a problem with Dresden Pentacle as long as he isn't concentrating his Faith in Magic in to it, making it glow

-Garlic - very common, very well known, without a doubt worth a bunch of refresh

-Threshold - cannot cross them without an invitation, again a big limitation

- Fire, Stake through the heart, Decapitation - common known weakens but then again no one likes to be decapitated or set on fire, so probably not really that much worth in Refresh

- Running Water - here I'm unsure how much of an obstacle that one is, is it just that they can't aces there powers like Wizards while under/on it? Or is it like a threshold barrier and every time a Blampire wants to cross a river they have to backtrack it to it spring and cross it from that point?

So what do you think? Which powers do you think are necessary/justified for a Blampire? Do you think that the Catches as stated are worth 6-10 refresh?

[blackstaff67]

DO you have a copy of Our World?  Many of those things are treated as Compels against as Aspect.

[Anubissama]

Now that you mentioned it, I found it _-_

It's a good start but as I said I for example don't agree that Blampires need "Claws" and the book kinda shoots itself in the foot, in the abstract they specifically mention that Blampires " tend to have long black fingernails, flaking skin, and no fangs," and yet the first power they give them IS Claws?

Since when are fingernails and normal human teeth, anything near claws? That damage should fall under the supernatural strength and speed in my opinion.

Then they are missing the Spider Walk power when it is very clearly described in Bram Stoker's book that they can do that.

Also the book keeps up the rule that PC can't be monsters, with this idea I clearly go against that basic rule, so there builds where never intended to be feasible for players and they never did them to be balanced and doable at any game level.

[Mr. Death]

Now that you mentioned it, I found it _-_

It's a good start but as I said I for example don't agree that Blampires need "Claws" and the book kinda shoots itself in the foot, in the abstract they specifically mention that Blampires " tend to have long black fingernails, flaking skin, and no fangs," and yet the first power they give them IS Claws?

Since when are fingernails and normal human teeth, anything near claws? That damage should fall under the supernatural strength and speed in my opinion.

A lot of the powers are representative, not literal -- look at Trolls, which have the Claws power to represent a cleaver they carry.

Then they are missing the Spider Walk power when it is very clearly described in Bram Stoker's book that they can do that.

But never once described as something they do in Dresden.

Also the book keeps up the rule that PC can't be monsters, with this idea I clearly go against that basic rule, so there builds where never intended to be feasible for players and they never did them to be balanced and doable at any game level.

Well, yeah. You can, of course, not go by that rule -- but the rule exists for a reason. Frankly, not every monster is appropriate for a PC.

That said, the books also say most fae aren't PC material, but I had a player play a pixie for several years and we all had a blast.

My best suggestion would be some kind of hybrid -- something with some of the Black Court's powers and weaknesses, but not all of them.

And no Catches would be worth -10 refresh. The Catch has specific criteria that simply do not go up to that level.

[Anubissama]

So with a Catch at +3 which a Blampire PC should get since the catches are easy to get and well known and Feeding Dependency +1 you can actually make the following PC Blampire:

Living Dead -1
Strange Sense -1
Domination -2
Supernatural Toughness -4
Human Guise 0
Inhuman Strength -2
Inhuman Speed -2
Blood Drinker -1


And you end up with 1 refresh and the only powers missing is Gaseous Form and Cloak of Shadows. Which in story can be chocked up to him being a young Blampire who can't do this stuff yet, which also explains why he gets Human Guise since young Blampires can still pass as normal humans.

[Quantus]

But never once described as something they do in Dresden.

But to be fair Bram Stoker's was specifically mentioned in the books as being accurate, so I think we should treat it as reasonable source material.

That being said, there are some powers that I think might be more accurately described as Magic Talents that a Black Court practitioner (like Mavra and likely Dracula himself) favor, rather than blanket abilities all BC vamps get, such as the mist thing or shapeshifting.  Otherwise I think we need to consider specific BC tiers (base/Master/Elder) with some abilities that are reserved for the higher level Vamps. 

PC level Blamp:  Hybrid?  Half-Blamp? Blamp-enhanced mortal?
To derate a Blampire down to its' core abilities I think we should strip it of all but the most essential and defining abilities, taking away most of the more magical stuff.

(click to show/hide)

Living Dead - 1 for obvious reasons

Strange Sense -1 night vision, smelling blood, and hearing hearts pumping

Supernatural Speed -4 Blampires are described as moving faster then the eye can see

Supernatural Strength - 4 and they have the strength to go with it

Claws -1 (as representing generic unarmed offensive capability, rather than specific claws or fangs)

Blood Drinker -1 obviously they drink blood, but what give Blampires the power is the death they cause by it, and they don't seem to gain any powers of having blood in there belly like Red Court Vampires

How does that sound?  You could always scale the speed and/or strength back a bit if you need to, for balance. 

As far as the story of this weaker PC Blamp, I see a couple directions to take it.  You could be an "imperfect" Blampire, the result of a non-master trying and failing to turn a new Blampire (via whatever means it normally takes that we've not yet seen on stage).  You could be a Half-Blampire, one who was conceived by or carried by a Blampire, via unique shenanigans (and magic, most likely).  You could be a Quasi-Blampire, somebody who was originally not pure vanilla human (changeling, Wampire, etc), and your Non-human half is incompatible with your new Blampire-ness so it is fighting/weakening it.  You could be an Infected Blampire, somebody who was exposed to Blampire bits and got some of it in you; maybe a transplant from an organ donor that the docs didnt realize was Tuned, or maybe injected with a Blampire-based super-serum by some crazy gothic style mad scientist.   

[Quantus]

OR....

Ive had an idea about Blampires ever since we got this new WOJ about how their powers work:

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2015 AMA
Black Court Vamps are a different story. They're actually tainted by something hideous and unworldly. They are driven to kill to survive. They don't really have a lot of choice about it. They enjoy being what they are, and doing what they do. They can be sad that they don't have someone who loves them, or upset that the world has passed them by and has changed on them, but at the end of the day, they're basically black-hearts who occasionally pull out a few of the tattered remains of their humanity, fail to fit back into them like they used to, and get maudlin about their glory days when they could watch the sun rise.

2015 AMA
How are Black Court Master Vampires made/elevated? Elders?
Mainly by growing more powerful by feeding on more lives. The more you kill, the stronger you are, as a Black Court vamp. Also by demonstrating that you can beat the stuffing out of your rivals. They're very much a Darwinian society of might-makes-right.
But most of the old ones worked out that you can't just go on killing sprees to farm XP. You're helpless a large portion of every day, and the food will come find you and end you. So they wait for good opportunities for that kind of thing. Wars, famines, and plagues are awesome for leveling up.

They are tainted by something hideous and other-worldly, and they gain power directly via killing.  So what if the entire scourge of Black Court Vampirism is a type of Sponsor Power?  What if they are gaining Power directly from said "hideous and other-worldly" entity in exchange for Lives/Souls taken?  Could we make a decent scaling Black Court Vampire purely through Sponsor rules?

[Anubissama]

Sounds good, but we all forgot the Toughness power they have, based on Our World it's Supernatural Toughness so it's a bit costly.

Never the less with a Catch of +3 and Feeding dependency you can make a Blampire like the one I showed above:

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Living Dead -1
Strange Sense -1
Domination -2
Supernatural Toughness -4
Human Guise 0
Inhuman Strength -2
Inhuman Speed -2
Blood Drinker -1

And him not having Cloak of Shadows and Gaseous Form can be because he is a young Blampire. So ether make him a simple young Blampire or make him a priest who was forcefully Turned and TWG/Uriel blessed him to keep the infection at bay at least in his mind (but that would probably need Marked by Power), or maybe one of your ideas.

[Cadd]

Regarding Claws - With Supernatural Strength, it doesn't really feel necessary as there's already an effective W:4. Pick that up later, as refresh rises.

[Sanctaphrax]

Could we make a decent scaling Black Court Vampire purely through Sponsor rules?

Not really, no. There's no such thing as Sponsored Strength.

That being said, you could let BCVs take sponsor debt.

[Nepene]

Maybe a vampire with superhuman toughness, inhuman recovery, +4 catch inhuman strength, living dead, and a +-2 evocation sponsor power.

-2 Toughness, -2 strength -1 living dead -2 sponsor.

-7 power. Easy enough to play. Sponsor can do standard vampire things for debt, debt can be repaid in blood.

[Quantus]

Not really, no. There's no such thing as Sponsored Strength.

That seems like something of an oversight to me.  I mean, how else am I supposed to pray to something to "Give Me Strength" if it's not on the list?

And How would Sampson have worked, I wonder?

That being said, you could let BCVs take sponsor debt.

So, a base creature template and then sponsor debt to cover advancement and other more rare abilities that Mavra and/or Dracula might have?

[Sanctaphrax]

That seems like something of an oversight to me.  I mean, how else am I supposed to pray to something to "Give Me Strength" if it's not on the list?

And How would Sampson have worked, I wonder?

Ordinary strength, toughness, and faith Powers ought to work fine.

So, a base creature template and then sponsor debt to cover advancement and other more rare abilities that Mavra and/or Dracula might have?

Not exactly. Rare abilities are probably extra Powers that aren't on the standard list.

Sponsor debt is for invoking Aspects, and has nothing to do with advancement.

[Nepene]

That seems like something of an oversight to me.  I mean, how else am I supposed to pray to something to "Give Me Strength" if it's not on the list?

And How would Sampson have worked, I wonder?So, a base creature template and then sponsor debt to cover advancement and other more rare abilities that Mavra and/or Dracula might have?

Maybe something like a pure 0 refresh power would be good. You're sponsored by some entity, and can get the paranet papers benefits of sponsors, enhanced strength, speed, fate points, and such at a cost in debt. No actual additional abilities unless you take debt, but an easy track to the sponsor charging you up.

[dragoonbuster]

Maybe something like a pure 0 refresh power would be good.

Here you go:

[-0] Sponsored Agenda
Description:It is possible to have access to Sponsor Debt without a Sponsor granting access to magic, or at least not full Sponsored Magic per the RAW.
Musts: You must have an appropriate High Concept and Sponsor with a defined Agenda to take this power. This power must be attached to at least 2 refresh worth of Powers.
Power At A Price: You may take Sponsor Debt to aid any roll that falls in line with your Sponsor's Agenda per the normal Sponsored Debt rules for Sponsored Magic explained in PP 249. All Debt must be approved by the GM. 

Works well for us.