Ghost, Mermaid, and Campaign Recommendations

[Taran]

Another question for you. One player of mine wants to do a wizard but wants his power to come from drawing cards from a deck. He thought about things like Magic or Yugioh, where, say if he needed a creature, he would need to roll high enough plus possibly pay for it through a fate token. How would that work? Is that a summoning/evocation?

I think the easiest thing to do here would be to use an Item of Power

-2 Magical Deck of Summoning Cards
    +1 Rebate (what it is:  a deck of cards.  Easily concealable)
     -3 Evocation

Summoning just works as regular attacks/maneuvers/blocks.

For instance, if you want to cast a weapon 3 evocation attack, you cast, like normal but narrate it as drawing a card, throwing it on the ground where a monster appears, runs across to your target, hits them with its claws then immediately disappears.

Compels:
- losing your deck of cards
- zone borders:  or magical creatures can't get across where your target is (normally evocation is range of sight)
- anything that might come up when casting from a deck of cards or summoning monsters.

The important thing is none of your summoned creatures are permanent, except where you put in extra duration.

Like a giant earth elemental guarding you and deflecting attacks (cast as a block against attacks that lasts multiple rounds)

[Haru]

That sounds like it could also be a sort of sponsored magic thing. Mainly, because it allows "thaumaturgy at evocation's speed and methods" or evothaum for short. Something like being able to make drawings come to life for a short time.

Then, there is a difference between the means and the end, which is important in Fate. Usually, summoning the creature will not be the end, it is the means by which you do something. You summon a frightening creature to scare someone. You summon a strong creature to break through a door. You summon a flying creature to quickly move from A to B. And so forth. All of that can be done with the "simple task" thaumaturgy rules. Evothaum allows you to do this as evocation as well, not just as a longer ritual.
But since you'd have access to both evocation and ritual, you'd be able todo attack spells etc. as well, the full range.

Then again, you could model this a number of other ways, as well. For example with "modular abilities". This costs 2 points of refresh and as many more as you like. The more you pay, the more points you have to choose from. So if you pay 4 refresh total for modular abilities, you could have powers worth 2 points of refresh to switch around. You could then make a list of cards you can draw and have a list of powers you get with that card. For example, drawing a small dragon could grant you the "breath weapon" power, because you can order the dragon you summoned to throw around fire.
If you've got the desired cards in physical form, just make a deck and a list which card gives which powers and when he wants to change the power, he doesn't choose which card he gets, he has to draw it from the deck.
I would probably grant him the "human form/involuntary change" rebate for that as well.

I hope you can at least somewhat follow me. This is where it gets complicated.

[Razgrizi]

I think the easiest thing to do here would be to use an Item of Power

-2 Magical Deck of Summoning Cards
    +1 Rebate (what it is:  a deck of cards.  Easily concealable)
     -3 Evocation

Summoning just works as regular attacks/maneuvers/blocks.

For instance, if you want to cast a weapon 3 evocation attack, you cast, like normal but narrate it as drawing a card, throwing it on the ground where a monster appears, runs across to your target, hits them with its claws then immediately disappears.

Compels:
- losing your deck of cards
- zone borders:  or magical creatures can't get across where your target is (normally evocation is range of sight)
- anything that might come up when casting from a deck of cards or summoning monsters.

The important thing is none of your summoned creatures are permanent, except where you put in extra duration.

Like a giant earth elemental guarding you and deflecting attacks (cast as a block against attacks that lasts multiple rounds)

Could you clarify something for me? Ive been trying to find this and just cant seem to find it. How do you know the values of rebate? I know the hidden versus obvious rebate, but what about for other things?

For the duration, would that mean spending a fate point to make them last longer than one attack?

[Taran]

Could you clarify something for me? Ive been trying to find this and just cant seem to find it. How do you know the values of rebate? I know the hidden versus obvious rebate, but what about for other things?

Look under Items of Power.  you get a +2 or a +1 depending on how recognizable/easy it is to spot or remove.  I could see situations where you wouldn't get any rebate at all.

For the duration, would that mean spending a fate point to make them last longer than one attack?

Attacks don't go for multiple exchanges.  I'm not sure a GM would allow you to put duration on an attack.  At the very least, you should have to spend your turn focusing on the attack every round.

Things like blocks require duration.  So for every exchange you want your block to last, you have to invest a shift of power.  An invoke on an aspect could add more duration if your GM is up for it.

For invoking, you might do it for things like this:

There's a heavy metal door 2 zones away and you want to prevent people from getting through.

You choose to put a block on the door/zone border.

You cast a 4 shift block vs movement and narrate it as a Summoned Troll blocking the way.  He closes the door and holds it closed against enemies trying to pass through.  You want it to last 2 extra rounds, so it'll cost you 6 shifts total.

Or, you could cast a 4 shift maneuver and put 'closed door' on the scene.  The the GM uses the door's natural border to prevent people from getting through. (let's say it's 7).  But it's easy to open an unlocked door.  Really, a supplemental will open the door.  Evocation is 'quick and dirty' so you couldn't manipulate the lock on the door with a spell, instead you can only slam it shut.  But, since you have a Troll closing the door, you can spend a FP to say the troll closes the door and locks it by sliding the bar/latch.  Then the troll disappears.

Now the GM rules that a heavy, locked metal industrial door is a zone border of 7 that lasts for the rest of the scene until someone busts through it/jimmies the lock.    This is the advantage of having a unique evocation.  But you have to invoke specific aspects to have a spell do more than what is possible with basic spellcasting.

[Razgrizi]

Look under Items of Power.  you get a +2 or a +1 depending on how recognizable/easy it is to spot or remove.  I could see situations where you wouldn't get any rebate at all.

Attacks don't go for multiple exchanges.  I'm not sure a GM would allow you to put duration on an attack.  At the very least, you should have to spend your turn focusing on the attack every round.

Things like blocks require duration.  So for every exchange you want your block to last, you have to invest a shift of power.  An invoke on an aspect could add more duration if your GM is up for it.

For invoking, you might do it for things like this:

There's a heavy metal door 2 zones away and you want to prevent people from getting through.

You choose to put a block on the door/zone border.

You cast a 4 shift block vs movement and narrate it as a Summoned Troll blocking the way.  He closes the door and holds it closed against enemies trying to pass through.  You want it to last 2 extra rounds, so it'll cost you 6 shifts total.

Or, you could cast a 4 shift maneuver and put 'closed door' on the scene.  The the GM uses the door's natural border to prevent people from getting through. (let's say it's 7).  But it's easy to open an unlocked door.  Really, a supplemental will open the door.  Evocation is 'quick and dirty' so you couldn't manipulate the lock on the door with a spell, instead you can only slam it shut.  But, since you have a Troll closing the door, you can spend a FP to say the troll closes the door and locks it by sliding the bar/latch.  Then the troll disappears.

Now the GM rules that a heavy, locked metal industrial door is a zone border of 7 that lasts for the rest of the scene until someone busts through it/jimmies the lock.    This is the advantage of having a unique evocation.  But you have to invoke specific aspects to have a spell do more than what is possible with basic spellcasting.

I havent had time to respond cause Ive had a crazy two days at work but I will tonight! With that said, I wanted yours and haru's opinon. As a starting DM, I had some ideas for sessions, but I need more of an explanation on something. In my 4th session, I was thinking about having the party actually do a full combat battle, not just with mental, and I was thinking a Frost Giant (story element is the literal troll under the bridge). Let me put what was posted first

Frost Giant
High Concept: Spawn of the Jotuns
Other Aspects: Master of Frost; Big But Not Stupid

Skills:
Superb: Weapons
Great: Discipline, Endurance, Might
Good: Athletics, Conviction, Intimidation, Lore
Fair: Alertness, Fists, Presence, Survival
Other physical skills default to Average, others to Mediocre.

Powers:
Hulking Size [-2]
Supernatural Strength [-4]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
   The Catch [+2]: Fire
Unseelie (Jotunheim) Magic [-4]

Stress:
Mental OOO
Physical OOOOOO(OOOO), Armor:2
Social OOOO

Total Refresh Cost: -14

Notes: Uses an enormous, ice-rimed sword (normally Weapon:3, Weapon:7 due to strength). Its Unseelie Magic is not truly from Winter Faerie, coming from the power of Jotunheim instead, but it is mechanically identical to true Unseelie Magic.

This frost giant is a small one, only about 14' tall and weighing slightly over a ton. They grow much larger, however; such frost giants will have Mythic Strength and/or Toughness, and possibly greater Recovery. The giants are highly variable in form; some might have Claws or a Breath Weapon. Frost giants with greater magical powers might wield Glamours or Greater Glamours, or full Evocation, Thaumaturgy, and perhaps some Refinement. Jotuns (eldest and strongest of the kind) approach plot-device level; Utgard-Loki, were he to reappear, might well be a match for Uriel or a Faerie Queen.

Now, were starting off with Feet in the Water before we actually move, after about 6 sessions, to Knee Deep (the second lowest? Forgot what it was called). Would this be impossible for a group of seven characters to beat? Should I massively tone it down?

[Razgrizi]

That sounds like it could also be a sort of sponsored magic thing. Mainly, because it allows "thaumaturgy at evocation's speed and methods" or evothaum for short. Something like being able to make drawings come to life for a short time.

Then, there is a difference between the means and the end, which is important in Fate. Usually, summoning the creature will not be the end, it is the means by which you do something. You summon a frightening creature to scare someone. You summon a strong creature to break through a door. You summon a flying creature to quickly move from A to B. And so forth. All of that can be done with the "simple task" thaumaturgy rules. Evothaum allows you to do this as evocation as well, not just as a longer ritual.
But since you'd have access to both evocation and ritual, you'd be able todo attack spells etc. as well, the full range.

Then again, you could model this a number of other ways, as well. For example with "modular abilities". This costs 2 points of refresh and as many more as you like. The more you pay, the more points you have to choose from. So if you pay 4 refresh total for modular abilities, you could have powers worth 2 points of refresh to switch around. You could then make a list of cards you can draw and have a list of powers you get with that card. For example, drawing a small dragon could grant you the "breath weapon" power, because you can order the dragon you summoned to throw around fire.
If you've got the desired cards in physical form, just make a deck and a list which card gives which powers and when he wants to change the power, he doesn't choose which card he gets, he has to draw it from the deck.
I would probably grant him the "human form/involuntary change" rebate for that as well.

I hope you can at least somewhat follow me. This is where it gets complicated.

I can tell! Its very complicated along those lines as its almost trying to get my player to pick and choose what he wants.  If he wants a creature or if he wants, essentially, environmental effects. How would that work short term versus long term, in the sense of evothaum. Is there a particular element or power he should take to help him?

[Haru]

I can tell! Its very complicated along those lines as its almost trying to get my player to pick and choose what he wants.

That's working as intended.

If he wants a creature or if he wants, essentially, environmental effects. How would that work short term versus long term, in the sense of evothaum. Is there a particular element or power he should take to help him?

Well, the sponsored magic version would be more complicated but also more versatile. You can do anything with it, as long as you can describe how your magic can do it.
The modular abilities version is more work up front and less versatile, but it is a lot easier to use, since you can avoid the magic rules altogether.

With the evothaum version, you'd basically just say "I play this trap card, which binds an opponent when he attacks me", which would basically just be an evocation block without any fuss. But he could also just solve a lot of problems with magic by having the right cards available. It's not so much about any element, the deck of cards would have its own sort of magic, outside of the standard elements.

For the sponsored magic version, you'd just need to take sponsored magic (deck of magical cards) and think up an agenda for the deck. Maybe a former magician resides in the deck, maybe it was created by someone that wants it to be used in a certain way, etc. That agenda can be used to deal with debt. You could also think about using different skills than the regular ones. Performance would for example fit a deck of cards from a magician.

For the modular abilities version, we'd need to set up the modular abilities first. I'm not sure at the moment how much refresh you'll play with, if it was mentioned earlier, I couldn't find it. Let's stay low and assume a feet in the water campaign.
Since the deck of cards is an item, we can go with an item of power discount, albeit a small one. The basic write up would look like this:

Deck of Cards (Item of Power) [-4]
 Modular Abilities [-2]
  3 Form points [-3]
 small/concealable [+1]

So having the deck like this costs 4 refresh. The next step would be to list the cards. I'm not too familiar with Yugioh, so I'll just go with something generic.

Small red Dragon [-3]
 Breath Weapon (fire) [-2]
 How to tame your dragon (Stunt): Use presence to use breath weapon, when you can order your Small red Dragon to set something on fire.

So any time you draw the "Small red Dragon" card, the 3 Form points from "Modular Abilities" get filled with the powers and stunts on the "Small red Dragon" card, listed above. What happens in the game is that the character draws and plays the card, a small, red dragon appears, and he can order it around to do stuff, which will mostly be setting things on fire. This under the assumption that you will do a lot of summoning and your presence skill would be better than your weapons skill, which seems appropriate for the kind of character you describe.

Now you just need to create a list of cards he has in his deck. All of them can have powers worth 3 or less refresh, and he can only ever use one of the cards at a time. Before he can use another card, he would have to dismiss the old one and draw the new one, which costs him an action (it's what "changing your powers" takes under modular abilities). You can also add new cards throughout the campaign, whenever you feel like it might be appropriate. You don't even have to look for a reason, it's a card he always had in his possession, he just didn't use it before. That way, you don't have to have everything written out up front, a good deck can have quite a lot of cards, I imagine.

[Taran]

Frost Giant
High Concept: Spawn of the Jotuns
Other Aspects: Master of Frost; Big But Not Stupid

Skills:
Superb: Weapons
Great: Discipline, Endurance, Might
Good: Athletics, Conviction, Intimidation, Lore
Fair: Alertness, Fists, Presence, Survival
Other physical skills default to Average, others to Mediocre.

Powers:
Hulking Size [-2]
Supernatural Strength [-4]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
   The Catch [+2]: Fire
Unseelie (Jotunheim) Magic [-4]

Stress:
Mental OOO
Physical OOOOOO(OOOO), Armor:2
Social OOOO

Total Refresh Cost: -14

Notes: Uses an enormous, ice-rimed sword (normally Weapon:3, Weapon:7 due to strength). Its Unseelie Magic is not truly from Winter Faerie, coming from the power of Jotunheim instead, but it is mechanically identical to true Unseelie Magic.

This frost giant is a small one, only about 14' tall and weighing slightly over a ton. They grow much larger, however; such frost giants will have Mythic Strength and/or Toughness, and possibly greater Recovery. The giants are highly variable in form; some might have Claws or a Breath Weapon. Frost giants with greater magical powers might wield Glamours or Greater Glamours, or full Evocation, Thaumaturgy, and perhaps some Refinement. Jotuns (eldest and strongest of the kind) approach plot-device level; Utgard-Loki, were he to reappear, might well be a match for Uriel or a Faerie Queen.

Now, were starting off with Feet in the Water before we actually move, after about 6 sessions, to Knee Deep (the second lowest? Forgot what it was called). Would this be impossible for a group of seven characters to beat? Should I massively tone it down?

I think this would be pretty deadly, depending on your group.  If you have someone tough to take a few hits, you should be good while everyone works as a team to build up aspects and hit the giant hard.  Especially if they can muster a Catch.

That said, it defends melee and attacks at superb while the group attacks and defends, at best, at Great.  So, they are on average going to fail to defend and take 8 stress in a given hit...which is a consequence or two.

So, if they don't work well together, they are going to have problems.

If they have a wizard, it'll go down easier because its ranged defense is lower and wizards hit harder, especially if the wizard uses fire magic. 

So, I'm thinking they'll get hurt a bit - someone may get hurt badly or be forced to concede but, overall if they work together, they can probably take it out quickly.

But, like I said, if they don't use a weapon with a catch and don't work together, the giant will pummel them because, statistically, it can defend most of what they can dish out.

But there are the concession rules, so I don't think it's likely going to kill anyone.

[Razgrizi]

Good morning! I actually have some more information to ask you all since my group and I had our first workshop for our character creations and city building.

In the mermaid I have, I have listed Aquatic, Inhuman Speed, and Incite Emotion. One of my players brought this to my attention. Should I have two separate builds, like the wereforms, where my refresh is rearranged for my mermaid? They said it seems like I would have things for my mermaid that I would not have for my human form.

In addition, after seeing what I would have, they wondered if I needed to add in a tail for my refresh?

Finally, they came up with an idea that I am having trouble with applying. More for setting up in the future,but they liked the idea someone suggested here that myself and a partner were working on a magical construct when a fae messed with it, unknown to us, and it exploded, resulting in the mermaid. One of the recommendations they had was that, since I would be a mermaid, they think I would have access to alchemy, specificially water. They had the idea based off of Full Metal Alchemist.

Seeing as I have not seen the show, do the mechanics support water alchemy? The most I found was the fotes and being able to do four things reactively. How would that work in general in Dresdenverse? In addition, if I was able to use fotes actively, how would they work in combat? As an example, if I turned water into ice to hold someone in place?

[Taran]

post your character and we can help you tweak it.

In the mermaid I have, I have listed Aquatic, Inhuman Speed, and Incite Emotion. One of my players brought this to my attention. Should I have two separate builds, like the wereforms, where my refresh is rearranged for my mermaid? They said it seems like I would have things for my mermaid that I would not have for my human form.

well, you have to list what abilities fall under human form and which ones don't.

So, your character would look like this:

-1 incite emotion
+1 human form (affecting):
  -2 Inhuman speed
  -1 aquatic

so, incite emotion can be used any time.  The other powers can only be used while transformed.

If you want to also have a skill-swap, you need to take a shapeshifting power.

In addition, after seeing what I would have, they wondered if I needed to add in a tail for my refresh?

No.  unless you want to attack with it, in which case, you'd take Claws.
Inhuman speed already represents your ability to swim fast (ie: you have a tail)

If I take the ability to shift into a bird, I'd take wings and diminuitive size.  I probably wouldn't take claws even though my character has a beak.  And, just because I didn't take Claws, it doesn't mean my character doesn't have a beak.  It just means he's not very useful at attacking with his beak.  In fact, it doesn't even mean he can't attack with a beak.  It just means his beak does almost no damage when he attacks.

You know what I'm saying?

Finally, they came up with an idea that I am having trouble with applying. More for setting up in the future,but they liked the idea someone suggested here that myself and a partner were working on a magical construct when a fae messed with it, unknown to us, and it exploded, resulting in the mermaid. One of the recommendations they had was that, since I would be a mermaid, they think I would have access to alchemy, specificially water. They had the idea based off of Full Metal Alchemist.

Seeing as I have not seen the show, do the mechanics support water alchemy? The most I found was the fotes and being able to do four things reactively. How would that work in general in Dresdenverse? In addition, if I was able to use fotes actively, how would they work in combat? As an example, if I turned water into ice to hold someone in place?

Yeah.  I haven't watch tonnes of Full Metal Alchemist but from what I watched it's Ritual: transformation.  Most people need to make a circle to do anything.  Only the really talented people can do it quickly without a circle.  Some of those people might just have really high lore and foci.  Others have items that let them do transformation at the speed of evocation.

Some can just do evothaum.

Anyways, that's how I interpret Alchemy from FMA.