New to DFRPG: Looking for rules clerifications and ideas

[Branagon]

Hello.

I've never played, nor ran DFRPG before. I and most of my players have some experience with RPGs (D&D, fudge ect.)

I'm about to GM a game for some friends set in our city and would like some input on characters.
This is just a short term game, so I can give people some experience with Fate before we commit to a longer term campaign. I was thinking of skipping the character and city creation phases.

To that end I'm creating DFs versions of the players as PCs.
Here are my ideas. I would especially like help with powers and stunts.
My players won't have read the books (DFRPG or DF), how much of a problem is that going to be ?
Any tips for teaching Fate through play?

1. An heir to an ancient roman house. Emissary of Power with magic gladius.
Connection to lost Legion??
2. A musician who discovers a magic guitar and a talent for evocations tied to music.
(Guitar is a gift from the Summer Queen)
Guitar IOP focus item (taking Refinement a few times). Could I have a stunt that lets you use Performance for power in Evocations or would that be too powerful. What about the Lore cap on focus item power?
Are Refinements only for wizards ?
3. A lycanthrope descendant of berserkers.
(How do I run lycanthropy in game, specifically how to choose when the moon is full)
Maybe let the player pick (with an aspect invoke) ?

I also have a math student and a physics student.
Maybe one or both of them pure mortal I want to emphasize that pure mortals are cool.
Maybe mathematical ritual power ?
 
7 refresh game  20 skill points.

Sidenote: Would you give the [+2] Human Form to a character who transforms involuntarily into a bear every night?
 
Thanks

Bran

p.s. this is basically a repost from my post Sanctaphrax's "Request A Character" thread (thanks for your help).

[Haru]

My players won't have read the books (DFRPG or DF), how much of a problem is that going to be ?

Depends. If they are well versed in urban fantasy and similar genres, they shouldn't have a problem. Dresden Files is basically a giant trope buffet to feast at. If not, I suggest starting slow and letting them discover stuff for themselves as their characters do. That can be a lot of fun and has the added benefit of not being overly complicated.

Any tips for teaching Fate through play?

Don't play Dresden Files.
Seriously though. As much as I absolutely love the Dresden Files, as far as Fate goes, this version is as close to a nightmare as you can get. It works, no doubt about it, but it's very complicated when compared to other variations of Fate. If Introducing your players to Fate is your primary goal and you want a Dresden-ish feel to it, the better alternative would probably to go with Nitrate City.

The idea behind that is that one day in 1948 the flicker set in and blended reality and fiction together in what was formerly known as Los Angeles. Now you've got people running around as movie-noir type characters and monsters, including the snarky PI but also a lot of other funky stuff. Sometimes the world even goes black and white like in the movies and strange things happen. It's got a lot less baggage you need to worry about, and you can just try out a very sneak, very light version of Fate to get comfortable with first. Nitrate City is one of the two settings I would definitely recommend to people to try out Fate, the other one being Masters of Umdaar. That's great fun as well, the world is sort of He-Man meets Thundercats meets John Carter from Mars and all of that.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/184325/Nitrate-City--A-World-of-Adventure-for-Fate-Core

If you want more info on that, give me a shout, otherwise I'll continue with your characters.

Or rather... not.

Sure, I could stat them all, that wouldn't be much of an issue, but for a one shot, you'll need to run a tight ship. The characters need to fit into the story, which means you'll need to have a story, and that's going to be a bit much for me to do.

Instead, let me introduce you to the casefiles:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/87671/Dresden-Files-RPG-Casefile-Neutral-Grounds
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/90998/Dresden-Files-RPG-Casefile-Night-Fears
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/94745/Dresden-Files-RPG-Casefile-Evil-Acts

They are ready made adventures that still give you a lot of room to work with. You've got partially created characters, so you can fill in some of the details later, as they develop in the game, that's pretty cool as well. The characters you get have a wide range, so everyone should find something to play. You can look through all of them and see which adventure you like most or maybe run all of them if your players enjoy it. After that, if you want to stick with it, you'll have a better understanding of the game, which will make it easier to help you set up for the long haul.

If you want to go through with your idea, we can do that as well, it just might take a while and it'll be a lot more work that might not be worth it.

[g33k]

Honestly, I'd cut way WAY back on the kewl powerz.

The Dresdenverse has its various specific supernatural oddities -- 3 well-described but entirely-separate forms of Vampire, for example, and another shadowy and un-described -- intermixed with some bog-standard ones (Holy Knights, wizards, a "White Council" of wizards, etc).  For them to play a Supernatural (who by all measures should already have a strong sense of how-the-Dresdenverse-works) asks them either to do some pre-reading, or let you guide their character.

You could also just run with it, when they do something non-Dresdenverse-ish, and just say "fine, that's the way it is in THIS game, and the novels/rulebooks are just wrong on this point..."

I think having them play versions-of-themselves is nifty, but I'd begin them pretty solidly mundane, with a large pool of Refresh (safety cushion!) and have them learn about the world as their characters do.

Then milestone them pretty fast, so they can elect to become lycanthropes, wizards, Emissaries, and the like, if they want... spending both their Milestone points and from their pool of Refresh.
 

[JohnDKBalman]

I've pick up the DFRPG books a bit ago i'm still working on figuring out the game myself (no previous table top RPG experince). I'm looking forward to when I can find people interested in playing it. Thou I do think it be fun to have the players that have not read the books play vanilla characters, (I'm thinking of Butters in Dead Beat). I would help if on player was familar with the stories. But I guess you could provided on player with a book or talking Skull(go Bob!) to provided them with need information as needed. Granted depending on when you set your story you could also just feed of the Para-Net Forums I guess.

[Sanctaphrax]

Don't play Dresden Files.
Seriously though. As much as I absolutely love the Dresden Files, as far as Fate goes, this version is as close to a nightmare as you can get. It works, no doubt about it, but it's very complicated when compared to other variations of Fate. If Introducing your players to Fate is your primary goal and you want a Dresden-ish feel to it, the better alternative would probably to go with Nitrate City.

I dunno about that. I think a lot of the increased complexity of DFRPG is illusory, caused by the way the corebook is written compared to the way other Fate books are written. I don't think DFRPG is much more complex than Kerberos Club or Nova Praxis or any other Fate game that tries to have interesting mechanical choices and subsystems.

Obviously Fate Accelerated is a lot simpler, but that's a pretty different type of game overall. And I wouldn't really recommend it to someone interested in DFRPG, even as a training tool.

Sidenote: Would you give the [+2] Human Form to a character who transforms involuntarily into a bear every night?

Yes.

[Taran]

Any tips for teaching Fate through play?

For aspects, place a few scene aspects and invoke them to create problems for your players.  Or have Enemies invoke them to give the players Fate Points.

This gets the Fate points flowing and it shows the players how to use aspects to their advantage.

Have enemies use maneuvers to create aspects, then tag them to improve their attacks, or invoke them to create problems for the players.  Maneuvers are the bread and butter of this game.  They are the things that make the game more like a movie: "I trip the bad guy",  I flip over this table and use it for cover; I do dive through the air to get behind the guy and 'flank' him.   Those are all simple aspects: 'Trip', 'Cover'; 'Flank' but they can be described cinematically.

Starting your first adventure with everyone as Pure Mortal until you get the game mechanics under your belt works well.  Also, if they haven't read the books or know anything about the setting, having them be Vanilla Mortal means they don't NEED to know anything about the setting.  The players can learn about it at the same time as their characters.

At some point, they can spend refresh to expand to different templates.  Focused practitioners, Lycanthrops etc... because you can give them in-game reasons to spend refresh on those powers.

[Branagon]

Thank you everyone for your responses. Sorry for my late reply its midterm session.

Starting your first adventure with everyone as Pure Mortal until you get the game mechanics under your belt works well.  Also, if they haven't read the books or know anything about the setting, having them be Vanilla Mortal means they don't NEED to know anything about the setting.  The players can learn about it at the same time as their characters.

I really like this idea, Taran. I might even just keep the few adventures mortal as well (or at least seeming that way) until my people get the hang of FATE. I've decided to get everyone to read "The Basics" just so people have some idea of how fudge dice, aspects and skills work. Maybe start them with 5 aspects instead of seven. I'll just do Trouble, High Concept, Background and 2 Guest Staring aspects. Picking up rising conflict and our story when they become personally connect to the supernatural in some way. I'll have us do City Creation once we break into the supernatural world. Until then I'll confine myself to small scale stuff. Making people play mortals I won't make them play themselves.
I'm hoping that reducing the power level and having people read up a little will reduce the difficulty of introducing DFRPG on the fly that Haru pointed out.

Players are fine with starting as pure mortals.

Here are some questions I have:

1. I've been thinking about how to build PM characters that can be cool in a supernatural game. The main piece of advice given out on the forums in this regard seems to be hang on at about half of your refresh. Here are some ideas that might be cool or supernatural characters and threats might easily outshine them.
Here are stunt ideas:
1. Monster Hunter - +2 damage when satisfying Catches.
2. Blood in the Car - Guide My Hand but only for showing up in your car
3. It's all natural to me - use Scholarship for supernatural research but not spell casting.
4. Lawyer - allow Scholarship to complement Rapport and Intimation when arguing.

2. How should I feel about pulling stunts from other versions of Fate? Spirit of the Century and Legends of Anglerre specifically. They both have arguably a higher power level than dfrpg.

3. Does calm blue ocean apply to hunger rolls ?

4. One of my players wants to play a kitsune changeling. How would you stat up a kitsune ?

5. Are true faith characters under powered ?
They give up the PM +2 refresh for Guide my Hand which is great and Bless this House which is mediocre.

Thanks for your help.

[Haru]

I'm hoping that reducing the power level and having people read up a little will reduce the difficulty of introducing DFRPG on the fly that Haru pointed out.

That should do the trick, definitely. One or maybe two easier powers should be fine, more is going to get you in trouble. Maybe try to build the characters and the adventure in a way that every character can use all their powers at least once in the course of the session. That's going to leave a good impression on your players, I'd say.

Here are some questions I have:

1. I've been thinking about how to build PM characters that can be cool in a supernatural game. The main piece of advice given out on the forums in this regard seems to be hang on at about half of your refresh. Here are some ideas that might be cool or supernatural characters and threats might easily outshine them.
Here are stunt ideas:
1. Monster Hunter - +2 damage when satisfying Catches.
2. Blood in the Car - Guide My Hand but only for showing up in your car
3. It's all natural to me - use Scholarship for supernatural research but not spell casting.
4. Lawyer - allow Scholarship to complement Rapport and Intimation when arguing.

Monster Hunter seems weird like this. Though it could be along the lines of "doesn't only know what to use, but how to use it". Yeah, that works.
Blood in the Car sounds weird for a title, but it might be a reference I'm not getting. You could simply give the character "Guide my Hand" and start him on the path of being a true believer. Or maybe call it something like "I thought I might find you here".
The other two look fine to me.

2. How should I feel about pulling stunts from other versions of Fate? Spirit of the Century and Legends of Anglerre specifically. They both have arguably a higher power level than dfrpg.

Keep in mind that DFRPG doesn't allow for attack stunts with a +2 bonus, only +1. The rest of the limitations are in the beginning of the stunt chapter, I can't remember all of them. Generally, you can surely take inspiration from other Fate games and build DFRPG stunts from those ideas, rather than using them as they are, if you feel they are too powerful.

3. Does calm blue ocean apply to hunger rolls ?

Hunger is an emotion, I think. So yes.

4. One of my players wants to play a kitsune changeling. How would you stat up a kitsune ?

For this game, very carefully. Pick one aspect of the kitsune you want to explore in your game and build the character around that. Don't go for too much.

Going from the currently running "Teen Wolf" tv show, we could look at the electricity powers. We could represent that with "breath weapons", basically allowing her to throw lightning as an attack or control electricity in a number of ways by doing a maneuver.

Another way to go could be "supernatural senses", allowing the kitsune to feel, see, smell, etc. more than the people around her.

Or some other aspect I can't think of right now.

5. Are true faith characters under powered ?
They give up the PM +2 refresh for Guide my Hand which is great and Bless this House which is mediocre.

Bless this house is boring. You don't really have to stay within the confines of the templates, look at them more as suggestions rather than fixed. A true believer for a quick one-shot can probably work better with Guide my Hand + Righteousness. If you want to let your players go up against something that's vulnerable to holy things, you can also give them Holy Touch. Only give them things they can use at least once in a learning one-shot.


Other characters you could use are simple shapeshifters. There's an example of a weremouse in the book on page 370. It takes Beast Change, Echoes of the Beast and Diminutive Size, so it's well doable with 6 refresh. Other animals are available, of course.

A changeling with glamours could also work quite nicely.

A character with an item of power, handed down by their grandfather or something along those lines could also work. The exact nature of that item would be determined by what you need. It could even be the hook to get the adventure started, solving the mystery around this item.

Some minor talent with things like Ghost Speaker or Psychometry could also work. Psychometry could be quite interesting in conjunction with the item of power.

Yeah, I think that's where I'd stay in terms of powerlevel and abilities. Maybe add a mortal stunt or two and leave some of the characters entirely mortal.

Do you need help fleshing the characters out?

[g33k]

I also have a math student and a physics student.
Maybe one or both of them pure mortal I want to emphasize that pure mortals are cool.
Maybe mathematical ritual power ?

I suspect this has already been clarified but:  if you have a "ritual power" or other supernatural schtick going on -- if you can cast in any way -- you aren't "Pure Mortal."

Pure Mortal cool comes from all that freakin' refresh!  And all those freakin' stunts!

As power levels increase, pure mortal cool begins to fade... the supernatural powers become overpowering.  A possible compensationmight be to assign extra Pure Mortal Bonus every Milestone (be sure everyone's on board with that & agrees it's "fair").

[RonLugge]

As power levels increase, pure mortal cool begins to fade... the supernatural powers become overpowering.  A possible compensationmight be to assign extra Pure Mortal Bonus every Milestone (be sure everyone's on board with that & agrees it's "fair").

My group is experimenting with making the pure mortal bonus 1/4 of the current base refresh, rounded up.  Personally, I think 1/3 is better, but...