There You Are

[Serack]

I will.  Thanks for the consideration.

Don't let it autolock first, or you won't be able to edit the OP to include potential new quotes for future releases.

[raidem]

There is a woj though that Merlin's lingo wouldn't be understandable, aka distinctly different than English. It was Jim's response to a query into the identity of the prisoner that talked with Harry in Demonreach.  Some believed it was Merlin, Jim apparently shot that idea down.  I could see some of the Dresdenverse characters going back to the time of Merlin though.  My personal favorite would be to have Murphy stranded in time there.

Don't let it autolock first, or you won't be able to edit the OP to include potential new quotes for future releases.

Ok.  I'll give it two weeks then ask for it to be transferred over.  Ideally I just want it recorded so I have a complete accounting of the occurrences of the saying. 

[Kindler]

There is a woj though that Merlin's lingo wouldn't be understandable, aka distinctly different than English. It was Jim's response to a query into the identity of the prisoner that talked with Harry in Demonreach.  Some believed it was Merlin, Jim apparently shot that idea down.

Yeah, Merlin would've spoken Middle English, which sounds closer to Gaelic than English. He could've spoken Old English too, which is even further removed from modern English. Did Jim ever make it clear when Merlin actually lived? He might've even spoken Old Norman, depending on when he was around.

Either way, if there's a Word of Jim specifying that Merlin's speech wouldn't be intelligible to Harry, that means that he probably isn't Harry from The Future. Unless, you know, whatever upgrade enables him to create a stable time loop in which he founds the organization that pursues him centuries later in his personal past scrambled his brains a bit.

[wardenferry419]

Maybe the brit at demonreach is Prospero.

[Jaken]

It's clear that "No matter where you go, there you are" has some significance we just don't know yet.  My aim with this is to ask if perhaps part of the mystery lies in some of the instances in which "there you are" is used has added significance in a return to some of these instances.  Grave Peril being a prime candidate for Harry to return to in some capacity.  I'd argue Changes as being another instance, not to mention Harry's take down of HWWB when he was just 16 years old.

So, Id Harry tells Harry "No matter where you go, there you are."
Uriel tells Harry the same thing "No matter where you go, there you are."  This was something Uriel considered useful for Harry to know, though Harry was totally clueless as to what it meant.
Reviewing some of the instances' I'd say Mrs. Spunklecrief had a hidden conversation with another Harry that was present and overlayed on top of Harry in Changes.
Harry returns to some of the events in Grave Peril.  He returns in some capacity to Changes.
Some futuristic Harry assisted a younger self in the flashback to Harry vs. HWWB.  Alternatively, a Archangel whispered words into the ears of a young Harry to help him defeat HWWB.

i find it somewhat significant yes. The most direct translation that I've come upon, is nomatter the events leading up a thing YOU were always going to find yourself their by perview of your choices, of who you are. (Something cluebatted at, Harry finding himself. Saw a really excellent thread on it just the other day...) the summation of the parts were always going to equal the same whole. Harry is always going to be Harry, it's who he is, literally.
Could have some significance through Harry finding himself, recovering who he is, coming to be in this own place in time, ect. Something I think will be touched upon in the MM book.
But I can't figure out the significance of the other view points of finding him for sure.
"If a group of people stood surrounding a large house with thick brush on one side, trees on another, ect, and you asked all these people to describe the house, they'd all say something different, but not untrue. Because of the different perspectives each view presented something totally different. But not one of these people, even if they pool their information would know what the house is for sure. Because? Not one of them had gone up to the house, gone inside and explored not only the interior, but the materials, the design, the very foundation of what makes it stand." (This means taking pieces of it apart of course, change, the observer effect applied)
This is the difference between all those who 'find' Harry with 'there you are' and Harry finding himself.
The house of Harry stands as it is because Harry observed it standing there, of that design, with those materials, with those principles as the foundation. But perhaps the house was designed to stand that way from the beginning of it, and Harry had to observe its construction anyway?

[Serack]

Yeah, Merlin would've spoken Middle English, which sounds closer to Gaelic than English. He could've spoken Old English too, which is even further removed from modern English. Did Jim ever make it clear when Merlin actually lived? He might've even spoken Old Norman, depending on when he was around.

Either way, if there's a Word of Jim specifying that Merlin's speech wouldn't be intelligible to Harry, that means that he probably isn't Harry from The Future. Unless, you know, whatever upgrade enables him to create a stable time loop in which he founds the organization that pursues him centuries later in his personal past scrambled his brains a bit.

We've been discussing the works attributable to the Merlin in another topic, and some of our efforts pinning down the timing in history got thick around this post.

Conclusion I got?  It's possible he started mucking around before the first century BCE, but there is more evidence that he was still around by the 4th century Common Era.

[nedserD C B yrraH]

To my mind the full phrase almost certainly has significance especially since it is thematically so similar to the 7 words Uriel gets to give Harry. It is all about self knowledge and using that self knowledge. I feel like it is a all tied together with harry not giving in to despair. Neg Harry could be defeated by Pos Harry, but a spiritually broken and mentally mangled Harry, that is what Nemesis wants.

[Kindler]

We've been discussing the works attributable to the Merlin in another topic, and some of our efforts pinning down the timing in history got thick around this post.

Conclusion I got?  It's possible he started mucking around before the first century BCE, but there is more evidence that he was still around by the 4th century Common Era.

If your attempts to date Merlin's life are accurate (and admittedly my thesis was written on the Crusades, not Imperial Rome, so I have little to contribute and can't really argue with your conclusions), then he most likely spoke Greek and Vulgar Latin, which explains why Latin would be the official language of the White Council (though modern Latin is almost literally nothing like the Latin actually spoken by Rome, and don't even get me started on Church Latin). In other words, even if Merlin was the prisoner in Demonreach, he would probably have spoken to Dresden in Latin, as Dresden's pretty obviously a wizard, but Harry's rudimentary Latin wouldn't be able to decipher it. It would be like a college student who took French trying to translate La Chanson de Roland without a reference guide.

Anyway, the point is that Merlin lived before dictionaries, mass media, the printing press, and the electric light bulb, all of which contributed to the significantly to the evolution of language until we have the homogenized English that the prisoner spoke.

Which is actually more interesting to me, because that means that that prisoner either was placed there relatively recently (within the past, say, two hundred years), or is an entity that has somehow kept up with linguistic evolution despite being in stasis. Could also be like Toot-Toot, who apparently can just decide what language he wants to speak. Hmm. Well, based on the information I have, I don't think I can make a reasonable guess. But it's an interesting question, and fodder for speculation.

[peregrine]

I can't imagine that we can read much into what the prisoner said, given that we've got other hideous critters also speaking to Harry and trying to bargain with him for release.  I'm pretty sure there's some sort of telepathic translation going on.  Barring the Chtulhu Fthagn that he got from one of them.

[groinkick]

To my mind the full phrase almost certainly has significance especially since it is thematically so similar to the 7 words Uriel gets to give Harry. It is all about self knowledge and using that self knowledge. I feel like it is a all tied together with harry not giving in to despair. Neg Harry could be defeated by Pos Harry, but a spiritually broken and mentally mangled Harry, that is what Nemesis wants.

Harry would have been better off if the 7 words he got were "You really should have sex with Molly"

[Serack]

If your attempts to date Merlin's life are accurate (and admittedly my thesis was written on the Crusades, not Imperial Rome, so I have little to contribute and can't really argue with your conclusions), then he most likely spoke Greek and Vulgar Latin, which explains why Latin would be the official language of the White Council (though modern Latin is almost literally nothing like the Latin actually spoken by Rome, and don't even get me started on Church Latin). In other words, even if Merlin was the prisoner in Demonreach, he would probably have spoken to Dresden in Latin, as Dresden's pretty obviously a wizard, but Harry's rudimentary Latin wouldn't be able to decipher it. It would be like a college student who took French trying to translate La Chanson de Roland without a reference guide.

Anyway, the point is that Merlin lived before dictionaries, mass media, the printing press, and the electric light bulb, all of which contributed to the significantly to the evolution of language until we have the homogenized English that the prisoner spoke.

Which is actually more interesting to me, because that means that that prisoner either was placed there relatively recently (within the past, say, two hundred years), or is an entity that has somehow kept up with linguistic evolution despite being in stasis. Could also be like Toot-Toot, who apparently can just decide what language he wants to speak. Hmm. Well, based on the information I have, I don't think I can make a reasonable guess. But it's an interesting question, and fodder for speculation.

Although the communication between Harry and this particular prisoner might be more accurately assessed by your analysis than the following point, I'll mention that Jim says that what Harry "experienced" at the Outer Gates and what the Outer Gates are actually like are two very different things, but that his mind is "good" at re-interpreting it's paranormal input into simplified terms that he can understand without his head exploding.  (that is HUGELY paraphrased from the WoJ)  Jim also said that older, more experienced wizards would roll their eyes at his "ability" to do this.  Thus it is within the realm of possibility that Harry's perceptions of the prisoner's communication were far different from the prisoner's actual linguistic background.

[Kindler]

Although the communication between Harry and this particular prisoner might be more accurately assessed by your analysis than the following point, I'll mention that Jim says that what Harry "experienced" at the Outer Gates and what the Outer Gates are actually like are two very different things, but that his mind is "good" at re-interpreting it's paranormal input into simplified terms that he can understand without his head exploding.  (that is HUGELY paraphrased from the WoJ)  Jim also said that older, more experienced wizards would roll their eyes at his "ability" to do this.  Thus it is within the realm of possibility that Harry's perceptions of the prisoner's communication were far different from the prisoner's actual linguistic background.

That would make sense, too. It's explicitly stated that everyone does experience magic a bit differently; doesn't Ramirez experience a soulgaze as music? I can't remember if that was outright stated or if I'm making things up again.

The dialogue from the prisoner is mental; just pulled out my Nook to double check it. So yeah, speculation based on that is limited at best.

[raidem]

Iirc, jim batted prisoner is Merlin down though.  He outright said that theory was wrong.

[groinkick]

Iirc, jim batted prisoner is Merlin down though.  He outright said that theory was wrong.

I recall him saying you couldn't understand the English from that time period.  He could have been speaking Sidhe.

[raidem]

He said something in addition to that.  I believe he said something like "nice theory but no the prisoner isn't merlin."  That was in reply to someone stating their theory that the prisoner was Merlin.