thaumaturgy

[ironwolf16]

can thaumaturgy be used to give a weapon the ability to overcome a catch?  ie I imbue your sword with sunlight ect.   would this be a maneuver so a 3 ritual that they can tag once for free then pay a fate point thereafter or 6 and use 2x ect.

[Taran]

I would think so.  I guess the complexity would depend on how rare the catch is or how hard it is to weaponize.

Like imbuing a sword with True Love, for instance.

It would definitely be an aspect, I think and it would last for an entire scene once you use it.

Maybe the complexity should be equal to the refresh spent on the toughness powers?

[Sanctaphrax]

Thaumaturgy can definitely do that. I don't think there's a formula, though.

Using the Refresh spent on Toughness spits out some bad results. Overcoming a white court vamp's Inhuman Recovery should be harder than overcoming a fire-vulnerable tree spirit's Supernatural Toughness + Recovery.

And anyway, Refresh counts are almost always low compared to complexity counts.

[ironwolf16]

maybe start at a 3 and do a ladder like medicore=common +0, average=uncommon +1 ,fair =unique +2 ect. 

[Taran]

maybe start at a 3 and do a ladder like medicore=common +0, average=uncommon +1 ,fair =unique +2 ect.

Yeah, that could work.  I'm not sure of the numbers, though.  I think certain declarations would be integral to the ritual.  Like, you aren't going to be able to have a Catch of sunlight without, somehow, having sunlight be part of the ritual.  So the ritual may have to be done at at high noon on the longest day of the year, or something like that.

[ironwolf16]

I was thinking of a crystal that has been left in the sun for a week

[ironwolf16]

on complexity I had a question from a prvs thread.
Quick question iago wrote about victor heart exploding spell

“
I've conferred with Lenny and with Clark. The Victor example is wrong -- it's based on an earlier version of a spell that was shown in the text before the example spells, but which since was deleted or revised (we're not sure which without a lot of research).

Victor's spell should break down as follows:

Assume the target has Superb Endurance (human maximum, more or less), and has rolled the best possible on its defense (+4) but without bringing any aspects to boost it beyond that. That's 9 shifts to overcome right there.
The attack stress the spell deals in a single stroke has to beat the best defense (9), all of the consequence slots (2+2+4+6+8 = 22), and then end up with a stress amount that will land somewhere higher than the highest possible box, forcing a taken out result (5, when dealing with a stress track 4 boxes long). 9 + 22 + 5 = 36.


Opposed By: Target’s Endurance, but it hardly matters—there’s not much he can do to come up with that many shifts of power to oppose it.
“
Here is my question could you not do the same thing with a complexity of 32?  You really don’t need the +4 for defense since there is no way for the target to get a 32 naturally

[Taran]

He doesn't need to roll 32 to survive.  He needs to soak 32 points of damage with a combination of consequences, skill and stress boxes. If he can do that, he survives.

If The target has superb endurance and,by luck, rolls +1, they resist with a 6. (Soaking 6 damage)

Which means he fills his your 4th stress box(soaking10)
You soak 4 damage with your 2 minor consequences (14)
You soak 4 with a moderate (soaking 18)
You soak 6 with a severe (24)
You take an extreme (32)

Your target has survived your killing ritual.  And he's in very, very bad shape.

If he'd rolled better than +1 he might save himsel some minor consequences.   If you'd put enough shifts to account for his lucky roll, he'd be dead.

[ironwolf16]

thank you I see how I was misreading that the +4 is to insure it takes the effect the skill/trait affected subtracts from the power plus what ever rolled.  that's why voluntary spells are easier I got it now.

[ironwolf16]

back to my original question using thaumaturgy to enhance a weapon with an aspect.  does that violate the rules if the character doesn't have an enchanted item slot. like if I wanted to enhance a cops billy stick to work on black court for an upcoming scene ?

[Taran]

back to my original question using thaumaturgy to enhance a weapon with an aspect.  does that violate the rules if the character doesn't have an enchanted item slot. like if I wanted to enhance a cops billy stick to work on black court for an upcoming scene ?

you can give enchanted items to other characters by lowering the power of the item by one shift.

So, you could take a magical billy stick, that gives an attack of 7 (weapons skill replacement spell).

When you create the item, you could make it a skill replacement 6 and anyone could use it.

Making the billy stick that has a catch of sunlight would be legal, if you could get the proper ritual to do it and you wouldn't need an enchanted item slot to do so.

[Cadd]

I see no thematic or mechanical hindrance to enchant objects that way, but I'd say the difficulty would vary depending on what you want to imbue it with.

For your example to be used against the Black Court - How hard would it be to (non-magically) coat a baton with garlic? That's the baseline for the thaumaturgy. Remember to add duration - if you want to use it tomorrow, you'll have to make sure to put enough shifts into duration to cover that.

For more... esoteric catches, such as Sunlight or True Love, they'd be a bit more complex, depending on how hard a catch is to weaponize. One of the major obstacles for something like True Love would of course be the question of how you bring the actual love into the ritual. What ingredients will it require?

Mechanically, I'd just treat it as adding an aspect to the item, possibly requiring an Invoke for Effect of that aspect to establish it for the scene.

[Mr. Death]

There's also duration -- enchanting something through a single spell like that should last, at most, a day unless you went to extra effort to increase duration.

Think about Harry's armor in Changes -- powerful, but gone by noon. Or the bracelet ward Harry enchants for Murphy in Summer Knight -- it works like a charm (hee hee), but just for that one scene.

[ironwolf16]

thanks I was worried about violating the spirt of the rules by adding aspects to other peoples weapons using rituals I figured base 4 + plus duration for common catches/aspects.  I wasn't sure about game balance.  thanks everyone for all the help

[Theogony_IX]

As a GM, I would severely limit the more esoteric catches.  Harry can't wrap sunlight into a handkerchief anymore after Susan becomes infected because he isn't happy.  Bob mentions that there is no such thing as a "true love" potion, just some close approximations using lust.  Both of these tell me that there is a strong spiritual component to esoteric catches that is wrapped up in the core of the character and not just the ingredients of a spell.

If you want "true love", you should be in love, or the person you are enchanting the item for should be.
If you want sunlight, you should be truly happy.
etc.