Outer Gates Discussion

[PirateJack]

Eh, I prefer the unknown horror angle, personally. If you make the Outsiders just another batch of monsters like those in the Nevernever they lose a bit of their mystique. After all, Harry mentions in Cold Days that they're supposed to be completely separate and dangerous because of it. They don't follow the rules of our reality and, apparently, all act in concert with each other. They're the otherworldly threat that make the usual monsters seem a bit more human by contrast.

As for the Outer Gates, I like to think that there have been occasions in the past where people have had to go past them, which is why there is a gate.

[Arcane]

As for the Outer Gates, I like to think that there have been occasions in the past where people have had to go past them, which is why there is a gate.

If nothing else, you need a way to send forces out there to keep Outsiders from just camping out at the Wall and spending all their time at one spot trying to weaken it.

[Sanctaphrax]

Eh, I prefer the unknown horror angle, personally. If you make the Outsiders just another batch of monsters like those in the Nevernever they lose a bit of their mystique.

That's part of the point. I'm generally not in favour of mystique.

[RonLugge]

If nothing else, you need a way to send forces out there to keep Outsiders from just camping out at the Wall and spending all their time at one spot trying to weaken it.

More than that, I don't think the Winter Fae defending the gates actually hide behind them.  I think they march out and meet the Outsiders in direct combat.  I suspect the purpose of the gates isn't to stop outsiders in a military sense, but rather keep them from sneaking in undetected.  Less Maginot Line more Trump's Great American Wall.

[g33k]

I don't know.  The White God is pretty popular.  One of the most popular gods on earth...lots and lots of worshipers, which would make him pretty powerful.  I would say he's probably affected by worship the same as any other god.

Well, Harry does get a glimpse/vision of just how powerful a particular angel is.
Now, maybe Harry was misunderstanding / misjudging... I mean, the guy HAS been known to make a mistake (or two), on rare occasions!
Maybe Harry was actively deceived by the angel, who wanted Harry to think he was that powerful... Harry has ALSO been tricked a time or two (including mind-to-mind, like this)!
The thing we know BEST about Harry is that he's an "unreliable reporter."  So maybe we just ignore everything Harry thinks, does, says...

Or not, 'cos then all-things-Dresden are just each of us solo-wanking over our own personal fantasy of how-kewl-is-Harry and/or how-skrewed-is-Harry and/or etc etc etc.

SPOILER WARNING (in case you don't recognize the (pretty old) parts I'm referencing from above):

So if we take ANY of the Dresdenverse at face value, we IMHO need good reason when we set aside any piece of it; not that we never do so, but we only do so with good reason.  Personally, I don't yet see the reason to set aside his experiences with God's Chief Spook as erroneous.

And if Harry is even CLOSE to being right, then God's Chief Spook wields enough personal power to make every other power we've met look like inconsequential window-dressing... And we don't really know how tough the REALLY tough angels are... let alone their boss!
 

[Taran]

I don't understand.  Are agreeing or disagreeing with me.  If you think the white god is super powerful, then I'd say that's because a huge section of earths population worships /beilves/ recognizes him.

[khadgar4606]

as harry said for shroud of turin belief makes power even fakes has considerable power

[Mith]

My guess is that TWG is the focus of all monotheist faith (or All-Mighty faiths).  That would mean that he would have all three Abramic Faiths, Brahma from Hindu theology, Gitche Manitou from Algonquin tribes of the Great Lakes area.  That gives Him a much more overarching influence across multiple cultures that justifies the influence he holds instead of being entirely Judeo-Christian centered.

[g33k]

I don't understand.  Are agreeing or disagreeing with me.  If you think the white god is super powerful, then I'd say that's because a huge section of earths population worships /beilves/ recognizes him.

I was saying (with apologies for the long delay in replying) that the degree of power Harry senses (in an angel) is far beyond what could be justified/generated by worship-from-mortals... and presumably the angel has far less power than his Boss has.  I am suggesting that the biblical "Almighty Creator" is... exactly that (at least within the scope of the Dresdenverse), and not dependent on mortal worship for power.

[dragoonbuster]

I was saying (with apologies for the long delay in replying) that the degree of power Harry senses (in an angel) is far beyond what could be justified/generated by worship-from-mortals... and presumably the angel has far less power than his Boss has.  I am suggesting that the biblical "Almighty Creator" is... exactly that (at least within the scope of the Dresdenverse), and not dependent on mortal worship for power.

Based on a WoJ, this hasn't always been the case. If you read between the lines, the White God wasn't originally [The Creator Of Life, The Universe, And Everything]...but somehow retroactively became that.

Arguing over the White God in the Dresden Files will go nowhere. We know almost nothing. We just need to wait until we see what, if anything, Jim decides to reveal about that whole thing.

[g33k]

Based on a WoJ, this hasn't always been the case. If you read between the lines, the White God wasn't originally [The Creator Of Life, The Universe, And Everything]...but somehow retroactively became that.

Hmmm...  That sounds, in Dresdenverse terms, rather like a Mantle... "Mantle of the Creator"?
Anyone got a pointer to that WoJ, btw?  TIA!
 
- Steve, the g33k