Looking to limit wizard power thread.

[blackstaff67]

Looking for the thread that "nerfs" wizards by limiting the damage bonus for spells to their Discipline bonus or something like that?  I'm coming to swing around in that direction.

[Taran]

- Don't let focus items increase targeting.  They only increase control.
- Limit total foci bonuses to Lore for a given power.  So, for evocation, if your Lore is 5, ALL your foci cannot total to more than 5. If you want to increase it, you have to take foci specializations.
- remove crafting foci.  But keep crafting specializations.
- damage over 'X' is considered lethal - or at least considered a compel.

[blackstaff67]

Thank you!

[blackstaff67]

So,, if I wanted to increase my targeting, assuming I have a point of refresh to spare, I take a point in Refinement.  Assuming I have a +1 Power in Fire magic (for evocation purposes), I can take a +1 to Control in Fire and a +1 somewhere else.  Right?

[Taran]

So,, if I wanted to increase my targeting, assuming I have a point of refresh to spare, I take a point in Refinement.  Assuming I have a +1 Power in Fire magic (for evocation purposes), I can take a +1 to Control in Fire and a +1 somewhere else.  Right?

I'm not sure what you mean. 

By RAW, every refinement you take in control also boosts targeting.

If you remove that, it only helps for control.
Ex:
Discipline : 4
Conviction: 4

You can draw up 4 shifts of power.  If you have a control foci of +2 and a power foci of +1,

You can draw 5 shifts of power and control with an effective discipline of 6. 

But your targeting is based on your discipline of +4.

If you want to boost that, you have to use stunts like anyone else does for regular weapons.

[Kennifus Prime]

- damage over 'X' is considered lethal - or at least considered a compel.

I definitely run with this one for taking out opponents and accidental hexing of nearby electronics.

If one of my Wizards throws 7 Shifts of Power into an Evocation then they're frying nearby computers, cell phones, etc. I usually just have this happen as most often it's story flavor only. But in the event it causes an actual hindrance I'd do it as a Compel.

On the same token, if a PC hits an opponent with a Weapon: 7 (Not even counting Stress for Targeting VS Defense rolls.) and takes the opponent out, then I'm not letting them choose to keep the opponent alive. Considering Weapon: 4 is "'Battlefield'” weaponry, explosives" I'd say that's reasonable.

[Sanctaphrax]

On the same token, if a PC hits an opponent with a Weapon: 7 (Not even counting Stress for Targeting VS Defense rolls.) and takes the opponent out, then I'm not letting them choose to keep the opponent alive.

You're either breaking the rules or changing them, then. To quote the lead system developer:

A Word on Killing

Consider that the game rules do not, in fact, allow for an accidental or emergent result that kills someone.

The only way you can kill someone is to take them out in a conflict and then declare you killed them. As the player who wins the conflict, you absolutely can always declare that when you throw magic at a mortal or off-limits being, that you put them in the hospital, knock them out long enough for you to achieve your goals, etc. If you're going to kill someone, it's a willful player choice to put that drama into the game.

(Though, theoretically, the GM could also propose it as a compel if you have "Anger Management Problems" or whatever as an aspect. Or, someone could take you out in a mental conflict and declare that you lose your shit and roast a guy. Whatever. The point is, the dice are never going to tell you that you killed someone. Someone at the table is choosing to bring it into play.)

So whenever you're talking about a First Law violation in your game, keep in mind that there's going to have to be, by default, some sort of consensus about crossing that line.

In any case, I don't see much point to the houserule. The Laws are a bad way to correct game balance issues at the best of times, and that approach does little to limit the control-focused casters that are optimal for blasting anyway.

As for the main topic, I think the most important thing you can do to keep spellcasting in check is to not interpret ambiguities in its favour. When the rules are vague, don't pick the interpretation that makes Wizards stronger. And the first three rules Taran posted are good too.

[Taran]

I don't see a problem with doing it as a house rule.  If the player knows in advance the. It is fine.  I don't think you could spring that kind of thing on a player though. 

Since you can always choose to use less power, it's still player choice to kill someone. 

If you nerf control accuracy items, then a wizard won't bother maxing out control because you'll be throwing around a lot of low shift attacks. 

Power and control are still useful for maneuvers and blocks.

If a GM wants to be unpleasant, they could have an NPC concede where the concession is death.  But since the table has to agree to concessions, you still wouldn't be able to stick Lawbreaker on a Wizard.   

[Kennifus Prime]

It's certainly a house rule and one all the players knew about going into the game.

Most times it's not a big deal as they don't fight a ton of mortals, but on occasion it does lead to interesting situations where they have to pull punches or take alternative methods to take the target out.

[Arcane]

On the same token, if a PC hits an opponent with a Weapon: 7 (Not even counting Stress for Targeting VS Defense rolls.) and takes the opponent out, then I'm not letting them choose to keep the opponent alive. Considering Weapon: 4 is "'Battlefield'” weaponry, explosives" I'd say that's reasonable.

I'd say even if you're changing the rules, the above is a little harsh as blanket result.  Some special effects are more potentially lethal than others.  A Weapon:7 Fireball might be fair for the above but killing someone hit with a Weapon:7 spell which takes someone out by covering them in webbing (leaving the mouth and nose uncovered) or knocking them out through intense sensory overload would't make sense.

[Kennifus Prime]

I'd say even if you're changing the rules, the above is a little harsh as blanket result.  Some special effects are more potentially lethal than others.  A Weapon:7 Fireball might be fair for the above but killing someone hit with a Weapon:7 spell which takes someone out by covering them in webbing (leaving the mouth and nose uncovered) or knocking them out through intense sensory overload would't make sense.

Ah, I should have clarified, the spells in question are always destructive forces. If they were casting webbing or something like that then that's a different case. Then again I'd think that would be a block more so than a Stress/Consequence dealing attack. But yes, in every instance where this has come up in our games it's been something that's hard to RP as not being death.

[narphoenix]

Ah, I should have clarified, the spells in question are always destructive forces. If they were casting webbing or something like that then that's a different case. Then again I'd think that would be a block more so than a Stress/Consequence dealing attack. But yes, in every instance where this has come up in our games it's been something that's hard to RP as not being death.

What about a Weapon:7 sleep spell from an accomplished biomancer wizard?

[Taran]

What about a Weapon:7 sleep spell from an accomplished biomancer wizard?

This reminds me of my NON LETHAL TAKE-OUT GAME

[Kennifus Prime]

What about a Weapon:7 sleep spell from an accomplished biomancer wizard?

Isn't a Sleep spell done via Thaumaturgy and/or as a Block? Thus it wouldn't really have a Weapon Rating?

This reminds me of my NON LETHAL TAKE-OUT GAME

Just read through that. I love that Thread. lol

[Haru]

Isn't a Sleep spell done via Thaumaturgy and/or as a Block? Thus it wouldn't really have a Weapon Rating?

If you want it to take your target out, it can very well be a weapon.

If you're worried that wizards might be too powerful with their spells, I've got the son of Thor in my game who can deal out weapon:7 hits with an effective skill rating of 6 without any magic. At least wizards are somewhat limited by taking casting stress.