Current DR wardens

[Beldon]

But are they all or just those that were there?

[madness]

It is never made clear.

I got the impression that the wizards who were present at CI composed the vast majority of the wizards who know that Harry is the Warden of Demonreach. 

My guess is that maybe half of the Senior Council (3 or 4 wizards) plus another half dozen senior wizards who are in the Grey Council.

Less than a dozen wizards total.

The two highest ranking wardens (Luccio and Morgan) don't appear to have known the truth about the island.  So if half the Senior Council and the leaders of the wardens don't even know then it must be one hell of a secret.

[Lawgiver]

I always got the feeling that the White Council sort of gets the powerful and secret wizard positions (Gatekeeper, Blackstaff, Warden of the Well) chosen for them for multiple reasons.

1)  they require unique and uniquely powerful wizards.

2)  the White Council hides their existence from its own members so most prospects are those who either stumble upon the positions or seek them out against the will of the White Council.

3)  greater powers tend to get involved (the Fates, whoever maneuvered Harry to the island, etc.)

4)  the types of wizards crazy enough to willingly take on these roles are not likely to be yes men or strictly uphold White Council doctrine.

If I had to guess I would say that probably nearly as many people had strokes when Eb took up the Blackstaff as did when Harry took up the mantle of the Warden of the Well.

Good list.  I'm most interested in #2.  It's an axiom that power rests best in hands that do not want it.  Those that want it are far more likely to abuse it.  I'd not be surprised if Rashid and Eb got their positions "by accident", meaning they did not seek them out, rather had it thrust upon them, so to speak.  The same seems to hold for Harry and DR.

[madness]

Good list.  I'm most interested in #2.  It's an axiom that power rests best in hands that do not want it.  Those that want it are far more likely to abuse it.  I'd not be surprised if Rashid and Eb got their positions "by accident", meaning they did not seek them out, rather had it thrust upon them, so to speak.  The same seems to hold for Harry and DR.

I agree.

The same could be said to have happened with Harry and the Swords and Harry and the relics from Hade's vault.

It seems as though once you attract the attention of the greater Powers you either get squashed flat or you get co-opted in some fashion by them.  Guys like Eb, Rashid and Harry are the rare ones who both caught the attentions of those beings and managed to survive it.

[Dashkull]

Interesting thought I just had: If part of DR exists in the never never, would Harry's intellectus of the place carry over? Because that kind of knowledge about the never never, wherever it is, could be a really neat thing to experiment with.

[Serack]

Interesting thought I just had: If part of DR exists in the never never, would Harry's intellectus of the place carry over? Because that kind of knowledge about the never never, wherever it is, could be a really neat thing to experiment with.

Ohhhhh.  Very interesting indeed.

[Lawgiver]

Interesting thought I just had: If part of DR exists in the never never, would Harry's intellectus of the place carry over? Because that kind of knowledge about the never never, wherever it is, could be a really neat thing to experiment with.

Hmm... interesting... though I've had the impression (for no particular reason I can cite) that when Harry is "below the island" where the "cells" are located that he's more in a "pocket dimension" rather than some general "place" in the NN - sort like Agatha Hagglethorn's personal demesne.

It would make sense to have very limited access - if DR doesn't let you in you don't get there.  It prevents "breakout" attempts because there's no way to "tunnel" in from elsewhere, etc.

[Dashkull]

Hmm... interesting... though I've had the impression (for no particular reason I can cite) that when Harry is "below the island" where the "cells" are located that he's more in a "pocket dimension" rather than some general "place" in the NN - sort like Agatha Hagglethorn's personal demesne.

It would make sense to have very limited access - if DR doesn't let you in you don't get there.  It prevents "breakout" attempts because there's no way to "tunnel" in from elsewhere, etc.

But even her pocket dimension was technically a part of the never never.

But the main thing I was thinking was that he could gain all kinds of knowledge of ways and things. We know there are ways onto the island, the traitor and one other shadowy person took on to the island in TC. If he can figure out the way to some of the places DR touches that would be really useful to him.

But that is just a start. If he were able to get some creatures to the DR part of the never never, he could learn a massive amount of information about them, potentially. Or maybe some information on the nature of the never never itself. The spirit realm is a tricksy place and he would have an even bigger advantage with his intellectus there than he gets here. And itd be just plain fun .

Im inclined to think that it is not partially in the never never, if for no other reason than it would be just one more way into the prison. Prisons with a lot of entrances and exits arent as secure.

[kazimmoinuddin]

Seeing as the island was a huge magical construction, would it not make sense for the creator to have built the never never side as well? There is potential places that reflect the well, like the underworld specificly tarturus. An aspect of the well could be formed to link and bind it, to empower and secure. I can imagine something like the lighthouse or the cottage of the island, intruding onto those reflections.
Look at what a body jumping necromancer and a spirit of intellect was able to build for never never defenses. If the well is so epic, imagine that magic used to construct their one bit of e never never.

[Dashkull]

Seeing as the island was a huge magical construction, would it not make sense for the creator to have built the never never side as well? There is potential places that reflect the well, like the underworld specificly tarturus. An aspect of the well could be formed to link and bind it, to empower and secure. I can imagine something like the lighthouse or the cottage of the island, intruding onto those reflections.
Look at what a body jumping necromancer and a spirit of intellect was able to build for never never defenses. If the well is so epic, imagine that magic used to construct their one bit of e never never.

I think it is a chicken and egg kind of thing.

Possibility A: You build the place, and it will become linked to parts of the never never that are sympathetic to it's nature. Then, you go there and build up the defenses to suit your liking. B: You figure out a way to link what you are building to a specific point in the never never and build on both sides at the same time. C: Use the act of creating the physical place to forge out a pocket of the never never that will be linked to it, and build your defenses in the pocket after or during physical construction.

I dont think it really matters which one is correct.

[Beldon]

Because of the way thing link to real world the nature of what is constructed could/probably would change the link in the NN.  I.e. You build a maximum security prison for super natural beings on this side it would inherently link to a prison/military structure on the other.

[ebliss1]

My only question about the whole thing is... why would the WC separate itself from DR? Going from a single Warden, with all the power/potential DR represents, to multiple wardens of far lesser potential (though greater range of influence/activity) seems like a very important step.  I can hardly image what exigencies prompted them to it.

This one seems pretty easy to me. We know that DR has a very strong negative effect on anyone who steps onto the island. And it’s almost instant. If the WC is as paranoid about wizards going warlock, they would most likely not want a powerful wizard camping out on that island for any length of time, since the island’s presence would eventually drive em insane and probably turn em warlock – a very powerful warlock since this wouldn’t be the sort of position you give to apprentices.

“But,” you say, “Harry gets along just fine with it.” Yes he does, but he did something no one else ever did – he performed a sanctum invocation there. That’s what allows him to sleep peacefully on the island and not dream of very bad things. Rashid was positively dumbfounded that Harry would try something like that on the island. His shocked astonishment says to me that no one ever tried it before, therefore it is not something any of the prior Wardens did. If such a procedure was the standard first task of a new Warden, Rashid would have reacted much differently (more along the lines of “wow – figured that one out all on your own did you?”). His shock that it was even possible speaks volumes.

My guess is that it was a vacant role for a very long time since the White Council either couldn’t get anyone to accept the role, or the ones that did went full-Sith in a hurry. But I’m also guessing that one was able to hide his warlockry from the WC and function as Warden for a chunk of time. I base this on the ruins of the town. The tower was obviously put in place as part of the original construction. The town, however, is much more recent. It takes considerable time and manpower to build a town, even a small industrial town. All of the people required to build it, maintain it, and such, would have been on the island, for a while. Michael Carpenter, as insulated from badness as he is, can barely stand to set foot on the island, so how would a bunch of laborers, carpenters, plumbers, manager types, fishermen, etc be able to stay on the island as long as was necessary to construct the town? The only way I can see that happening is a former DR Warden went all spooky side, but managed to hide it from the WC. He was able to enthrall a large group of mortals to come to the island to set up his little fiefdom, but they eventually succumbed to the competing pressures of their thralldom and DRs “go away field” and turned psychotically insane. The WC would have had to show up, execute the Warden for being a warlock, and with the rest of the surviving population hopelessly insane, probably mercy killed them as well. If Michael is so affected, it seems impossible that a bunch of vanilla mortals would have been able to settle on the island long enough to get an industry up and running without help. I can’t think of another situation where that many people would be able to hold out on the island for that long.

[Phariah]

Interesting thought I just had: If part of DR exists in the never never, would Harry's intellectus of the place carry over? Because that kind of knowledge about the never never, wherever it is, could be a really neat thing to experiment with.

i do not think so. DR is a spirit of the land and loci of our reality. i do not see it being linked to the NN.

[kazimmoinuddin]

Intellect us is a huge advantage on the island, so it would make sense for there to be something equivalent on the other side. Especially if it was artificially formed as part of the island. So it could be pretty epic. Evil bob created something akin to the beaches of Normandy, demonreach will be so much greater.

[Beldon]

We have all made a grave assumption here, and that is that like the gate keeper and black staff, the Warden is a position of the WC. Harry mentions in TC as he sets up the sanctum spell that they are rare, Eb even mentions that there are few locii then on top of that few wizards are capable of performing a sanctum.  Rashid's shock may come more from the fact that Harry succeeded rather than knowing what was done.  What if the island is one of those things lost to the histories? 
Then later Harry informs Eb, who takes it to the gray council. (I'm a little hazy on the order of Eb's journal reading and the rest of the activities) after all it wasn't until after TC that Harry even knows the full purpose.