Author Topic: Stacking Stunts with Powers  (Read 2936 times)

Offline Shaft

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Stacking Stunts with Powers
« on: March 17, 2016, 05:32:27 AM »
Can someone with the On My Toes stunt (which grants +2 to Initiative) stack that bonus with Inhuman Speed (which grants +4 to Initiative) to get a total +6 Initiative bonus?

Can someone who has the On My Toes stunt and Modular Abilities Power use 1 point of the Modular Abilities Pool to upgrade her On My Toes stunt to the Inhuman Speed Power, or would she have to use 2 points from the pool to buy Inhuman Speed?  If she had to use two points, would Inhuman Speed stack with her innate, non-modular On My Toes stunt, or is the point spent in that stunt lost when she uses the Modular Abilities on any kind of speed power?

Similarly, can someone who has the Lethal Weapon stunt stack the damage bonus with Inhuman Strength or Claws?

If they have Modular Abilities, can they use only one point from the abilities pool to upgrade the innate Stunt into a Power to gain Inhuman Strength? 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 05:35:04 AM by Shaft »

Offline dragoonbuster

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Re: Stacking Stunts with Powers
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2016, 07:25:01 AM »
I think some of this is up to your GM, but my take is:

Yes.

I...think I would be okay with an "upgrade" like that, I guess? If you allocated 2 points to Inhuman Speed, it would stack with the stunt.

Yes and Yes, though I'd rename it if combined with Claws.

I guess?
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Offline blackstaff67

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Re: Stacking Stunts with Powers
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2016, 11:57:11 AM »
I'd allow it.  Logically speaking, there's no reason for a character that gains a skill bonus from a power being unable to learn a stunt that gives him a bonus to the same skill.  Your example sounds like a RCV that's really good at stealth or athletics  The same would apply with Endurance stunts and Recovery powers, I guess.. 
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Offline RonLugge

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Re: Stacking Stunts with Powers
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2016, 04:33:54 PM »
Stunts can stack with powers.  You can use on your toes with Inhuman speed to awesome effect.  Lethal weapon stacks with claws and inhuman strength.

That said, I don't think modular abilities interacts with stunts at all.  Modular doesn't let you take stunts, nor can you use it to 'upgrade' a stunt.  To put it another way... a stunt is something you know.  A power is something you _are_.  (Not exactly entirely true, but the best way I can phrase it -- they do different types of things)

Offline Haru

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Re: Stacking Stunts with Powers
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2016, 07:49:24 PM »
That said, I don't think modular abilities interacts with stunts at all.  Modular doesn't let you take stunts, nor can you use it to 'upgrade' a stunt.  To put it another way... a stunt is something you know.  A power is something you _are_.  (Not exactly entirely true, but the best way I can phrase it -- they do different types of things)
Not necessarily. A stunt can do all kinds of things, and they can very much work in synergy with a stunt. I'll definitely allow, and have allowed, stunts to be taken with modular abilities. They are usually in a power set and not willynilly, but they are there.

When it comes to upgrading a stunt to a power as described above, I don't see too much of a problem. Of course, there should be a good reason for it, not just "I have this power, so I'll do it". But that goes for pretty much any power, I suppose. You could look at the stunt as a remnant of your full power staying with you when you are in your human form. Kind of like echoes of the beast. That being said, you could also take echoes of the beast and call it something else to represent something like this. Though then the upgrade wouldn't fit anymore. Your version should work best, I think.
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Offline Theogony_IX

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Re: Stacking Stunts with Powers
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2016, 08:08:01 PM »
As a GM, I wouldn't allow an inherent stunt to discount the cost of a modular abilities gained power in exchange for losing the stunt for two reasons. 

1) The On Your Toes stunt means you are very aware.  Inhuman Speed means you react inhumanly quick.  One is a mortal stunt, the other is a power.  The two don't overlap to allow the stunt to be considered a lesser form of the power the way that Inhuman Speed is a lesser form of Supernatural Speed.  One involves magic and the other does not.

2) I would rule that unless a point of refresh is a part of your modular abilities pool, then it can't interact with how you spend your modular abilities pool except in cases where the building block powers specify that a lesser form of the power is replaced . . . inhuman to supernatural, etc.

Offline wyvern

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Re: Stacking Stunts with Powers
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2016, 10:22:18 PM »
As a GM, I wouldn't allow an inherent stunt to discount the cost of a modular abilities gained power in exchange for losing the stunt for two reasons. 

1) The On Your Toes stunt means you are very aware.  Inhuman Speed means you react inhumanly quick.  One is a mortal stunt, the other is a power.  The two don't overlap to allow the stunt to be considered a lesser form of the power the way that Inhuman Speed is a lesser form of Supernatural Speed.  One involves magic and the other does not.

2) I would rule that unless a point of refresh is a part of your modular abilities pool, then it can't interact with how you spend your modular abilities pool except in cases where the building block powers specify that a lesser form of the power is replaced . . . inhuman to supernatural, etc.
1: This is just flavor.  Consider a "Faster Than I Look" stunt that has exactly the same effect; that could totally be a lesser version of the Inhuman Speed power.  Similarly, just because something is a stunt in game-mechanics terms, doesn't mean it has to be nonmagical.  (For a very obvious example, consider a "Hedge Wizard" lore stunt that lets you use lore as investigation for arcane matters.)

2: Not much to say here except "I disagree".  If a stunt is explicitly declared as a subset of a power, I don't see any reason to prevent it from being upgraded the same way one might go from Inhuman Whatever to Supernatural Whatever.  On the other hand... if it is a subset of some power, well, there's no reason not to put that point of refresh into the modular abilities pool in the first place, is there?

That all said, I'd still look carefully at any character trying this sort of thing.  I wouldn't rule it out instantly, especially for a character that was using a Human Form type limitation instead of Modular Abilities, but it's the sort of thing I'd allow on a case by case basis rather than a "yeah, this is okay for all possible characters" basis.

Offline Theogony_IX

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Re: Stacking Stunts with Powers
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2016, 11:36:11 PM »
Yeah, you're right, wyvern.  If you start adjusting the flavor to make stunts lesser versions of the building block powers, then sure, they stop being mortal stunts and start being powers.  However, that starts to become rather power-gamey with Modular Abilities, a power that is already a little power-gamey.  As you said, I'd look very carefully.  I think it would really depend on the character concept, and would need to really make sure that the stunt-as-a-power made sense over simply taking the Inhuman level power.

Despite my argument being successfully refuted, I still wouldn't allow it.  I think Modular Abilities is strong enough without adding stunts to the range of powers available. *shrug*