Ideas for St. Louis city creation

[SirJackers]

I'm specifically wondering if anyone has ideas for the arch. After doing a little research I'm thinking of playing up the "gateway to the west" idea and having the arch be a purposefully weakened veil to the nevernever, but I'm struggling to find a purpose for doing that (besides some demon summoning maniac)

Alternatively I was considering having all of St Louis be an accorded safe haven and having the arch disperse the magic nullification of the Mississippi River over the entire city using a giant magic circle. Think a giant warded threshold with the river serving as a battery. But when the red court was killed off and the spell targeting the Reds hit the arch it overloaded the system causing it to fail. Now St. Louis is a war zone over turf and the accords are basically non existent (or at least blatantly ignored).

Ideas? Concerns? Would that mess with the canon in the books?

[Sanctaphrax]

I know nothing about the city, but I can link you to a game set there.

There's also been another St. Louis game (with me in it) using this system here, but it wasn't in the Dresdenverse or the real world so there's probably nothing useful in it.

[SirJackers]

Really I'm just wondering if the second option hits any walls within the confines of the book canon, because that'd be one heck of a setting. I know Ramirez references stuff happening in St. Louis at one point but I can't for the life of me find the quote.

[PirateJack]

I'm specifically wondering if anyone has ideas for the arch. After doing a little research I'm thinking of playing up the "gateway to the west" idea and having the arch be a purposefully weakened veil to the nevernever, but I'm struggling to find a purpose for doing that (besides some demon summoning maniac)

Well, that's an easy one. It's a crossroads. As the Gateway to the West it has become such a prominent metaphysical location that you can travel to practically anywhere else that has the feel of a frontier. Of course, that also means others can find their way here. Lots of strange folks pass through St. Louis.

Alternatively I was considering having all of St Louis be an accorded safe haven and having the arch disperse the magic nullification of the Mississippi River over the entire city using a giant magic circle. Think a giant warded threshold with the river serving as a battery. But when the red court was killed off and the spell targeting the Reds hit the arch it overloaded the system causing it to fail. Now St. Louis is a war zone over turf and the accords are basically non existent (or at least blatantly ignored).

This half works, in my opinion. I love the idea of a nullification ward powered by the river; it fits thematically so damn well. The only problem I see is that a magic circle weakens the more things cross over it. Hundreds of thousands of people travel/commute to St. Louis every day so I'm not sure how that would work. There's also the fact that the Accords aren't enforced by anti-magic spells. They're enforced by Mab, and she hasn't gone anywhere.

[SirJackers]

The idea is that the constant flow of the river is basically renewing the threshold constantly, so mass travel over it is a non issue.

And I could see one of the supernatural power players getting a favor from Mab to allow the creation of the safe haven. Maybe even the White Council. If a supernatural entity has to leave its power outside of the threshold then everyone/thing would be on even footing in there. It'd be a great place for a no powers duel to the death, a supernatural prison, or just a good hide away to lick your wounds. I could see Mab finding a use for that, or building a "doesn't affect me or my own" clause into it.

[SirJackers]

They're enforced by Mab, and she hasn't gone anywhere.

After rereading I see what you were trying to say. And I'd argue that Mab doesn't enforce the Accords at all, she just wrote them. She's as beholden to them as any other signer. The enforcers of the Accords are every other signer. Kinda like how the UN is governed by the body of countries and not a single one, if one country acts up they all smack them down.

[PirateJack]

After rereading I see what you were trying to say. And I'd argue that Mab doesn't enforce the Accords at all, she just wrote them. She's as beholden to them as any other signer. The enforcers of the Accords are every other signer. Kinda like how the UN is governed by the body of countries and not a single one, if one country acts up they all smack them down.

I believe we have a Word of Jim stating that the reason the Accords exist is because Mab told everyone to sign them. Everyone did because she's Mab. So while the other signatories enforce them for the most part, it's Mab who is the driving force behind it all.

Remember during Small Favor, when Harry talked to Luccio on the phone about how it was in the Council's best interests to intervene in Marcone's kidnapping. He started off with the same line you're using, but Luccio was having none of it. It took Harry telling her that Mab was involved (and letting her draw the conclusion that Mab had threatened to revoke the guarantee of safe passage through the Ways) to convince her. The other signatories only enforce the Accords when it benefits them. Mab provides the background impetus to make them do it. Also, the entire point of Skin Game was Mab getting revenge on Nicodemus for breaking the Accords.

The Accords only work because Mab is one of the most feared and dangerous beings on the planet. If they didn't have that kind of backing, they likely would be like the UN; mostly impotent.

[AgentSchneider]

After rereading I see what you were trying to say. And I'd argue that Mab doesn't enforce the Accords at all, she just wrote them. She's as beholden to them as any other signer. The enforcers of the Accords are every other signer. Kinda like how the UN is governed by the body of countries and not a single one, if one country acts up they all smack them down.

That's not entirely true. While the signees on the Accords do typically settle things amongst themselves (a la Harry's duel with Paolo Ortega in Death Masks to settle the dispute between the White Council and the Red Court), Mab does seem to enforce the Accords in some manner. In Small Favor Nicodemus breaks the Accords by kidnapping Marcone (ultimately with the goal of snatching The Archive). While Mab doesn't directly intervene in the matter, she does act through Harry to resolve the issue immediately, as well as later on in Skin Game when

(click to show/hide)

we (and Nicodemus) learn that you really don't want to break Mab's rules or make her angry. Otherwise she'll play the long con on you, make you kill the only person you love, kick you off of the Accords, and leave you blacklisted in the supernatural community.

.And you definitely don't want to do anything to break the rules on Accorded Neutral Grounds or she WILL show up. (edit - looks like PirateJack beat me to it on this one, but you get the picture)

In regards to your actual campaign idea I like it. I'm running a game set in Pittsburgh and I had a similar idea of it having a powerful magical threshold around the city proper due to it being surrounded by rivers. Like PirateJack said I think you could just say that St. Louis is a metaphysical crossroads and that could be the reason why the veil is weak.

Maybe instead of there being a giant magic circle surrounding the city, perhaps a leyline used to run right through the area and the St. Louis Arch was built to run along the leyline, taking the energy in one end and dispersing it over the arch to the other side and leaving the ground beneath magic-free? Perhaps you could think about introducing the Fomor into the mix in some way? Certainly with St. Louis being right along the water and a power vacuum popping up I'm sure they would want to be right in the thick of things.

[SirJackers]

Alright so what if the infighting was in line with the accords? New territory opens up when the threshold goes down, supernatural players move in, territory is claimed but in the rush people don't fully establish who's turf is who's. Then you have a lot of  "uninvited guests" trespassing on what would technically be "claimed territory" causing the supernatural equivalent to a gang war.

Mind you all of this would be small scale, it's not like Marcone would be staking claim (although providing resources to the local criminal element to cause further disarray would be up his alley. Franchising if you will.) or Lara Raith, or any of the other signers. They know that blatant support would cause a war. But, if small groups without direct affiliation to their larger factions could get away with quite a bit. All while following the letter of the Accords and possibly claiming a whole city for their faction.

[PirateJack]

Supernatural turf wars are par for the course, really. When Harry died at the end of Changes we saw the White Court, Fomor and various other supernatural entities try to stake their claim in Chicago. As it is now Chicago is pretty much the territory of Baron Marcone, with Lara having her own slice of the pie on the side. It's only if you break the Accords in fighting these wars (no breaking truces, no cheating in duels, etc.) that Mab gets involved.

[SpoonR]

The OP confused me.  "disperse the magic nullification of the Mississippi River". I was thinking of disperse as spreading the Mississippi effect out so thin that the the river no longer nullified magic. (definitions "to dispel or cause to vanish". I'd suggest spread or expand instead if you have to explain it to your players.

Anyhoo, there are a couple aspects of the Arch that I would want to play with. The Arch is big, and a gateway. Ergo, there must be a Godzilla attack during the campaign. Supersized Fomor? Secondly, it has the viewing area at the top. Tailor made for scenes of 'powerful people threatening each other as the city spreads in the background'. Bonus points if the city is burning at the time. Maybe that still has the threshold because it is part of the arch, so it is now neutral ground. And if somebody hexes the elevator, it's a loooong walk down.
http://www.gatewayarch.com/experience/journey-top-arch.aspx

[Shaft]

Anyhoo, there are a couple aspects of the Arch that I would want to play with. The Arch is big, and a gateway. Ergo, there must be a Godzilla attack during the campaign. Supersized Fomor?

In the Rifts Roleplaying Game, the St Louis Arch is a construct that permanently keeps a massive rift open.  Big nasty things come in through there all the time. 

[dragoonbuster]

In the Rifts Roleplaying Game, the St Louis Arch is a construct that permanently keeps a massive rift open.  Big nasty things come in through there all the time.

Ah, Rifts.

Yeah, the Arch is clearly a giant Circle to me. It could be used for all kinds of crazy rituals, but of course the only types crazy enough to do something like that are generally crazy evil.