Are there rules for making holy water?

[Shaft]

Are there rules for making holy water?  Specifically:

Can a Pure Mortal priest/nun/rabbi/imam who isn't in the know make "actual" holy water just by using his High Concept and a Conviction roll, or does he need a Conviction stunt? 

Is the ability to create holy water available to anyone with a Faith Power? 

Does holy water that is removed from a church lose it's holy quality at sunrise/sunset?

Can you use thaumaturgy to create holy water?

[Ulfgeir]

Can you use thaumaturgy to create holy water?

Well I can see that either being a common ritual (that the WC might have spread out to dilute the effects) that anyone could do, or it actually becomes effective due to people thinking it is effective..

/Ulfgeir

[Taran]

I think it works if you think it works.   Just like Holy Symbols.

Lots of Christian denominations don't actually have 'holy water'.  Catholics do and have specific prayers/ritual for blessing water but a lot of the Presbyterian denominations don't.  Water is just seen as a symbol of baptism/renewal/cleansing not as an actual 'thing'.

That said, maybe there is a ritual but only certain denominations remember it...but I wouldn't rule out other faiths using sanctified water.

- Anyone with True Faith can probably make it, I'd say.
- I'd say any Mundane Leader of a Faith can make Holy water if their Faith Practice supports that belief.
- I'd say Holy Water is permanent until it's had a reason not to be Holy: despoiled or forgotten
- I'm not sure Thaumaturgy supports making Holy Water unless you have Soul-fire.  That said, I could there being a ritual for it.  And given the proper ritual materials and components - and belief - a wizard can probably make Holy Water.

[Taran]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_water

[dragoonbuster]

- Anyone with True Faith can probably make it, I'd say.
- I'd say any Mundane Leader of a Faith can make Holy water if their Faith Practice supports that belief.
- I'd say Holy Water is permanent until it's had a reason not to be Holy: despoiled or forgotten
- I'm not sure Thaumaturgy supports making Holy Water unless you have Soul-fire.  That said, I could there being a ritual for it.  And given the proper ritual materials and components - and belief - a wizard can probably make Holy Water.

This was the list I was about to draw up. Totally agreed here. Non-True Faith characters *might* have to spend a FP to make some, if they don't have a stunt related to it, but I could probably fall either way on that.

[horngeek]

Potion rules, I'd say.  Maybe someone has a custom power allowing them to make a single potion at their Lore, but otherwise, just potion rules.

[Taran]

Potion rules, I'd say.  Maybe someone has a custom power allowing them to make a single potion at their Lore, but otherwise, just potion rules.

for the purposes of thaumaturgy, using potion rules probably works.  An attack potion that has a catch of Holy, or a maneuver that could be used to invoke a creature's High Concept.

I wouldn't say this would be the exclusive way of doing it, though.  Pure Mortals should be able to make and use Holy Water.  If you limit it to potions, then Wizards become the best equipped to making it...which just isn't the case.  And any non-wizard with a custom power would(in game terms) lose a Pure Mortal bonus.

[Lawgiver]

Potion rules, I'd say.  Maybe someone has a custom power allowing them to make a single potion at their Lore, but otherwise, just potion rules.

for the purposes of thaumaturgy, using potion rules probably works.  An attack potion that has a catch of Holy, or a maneuver that could be used to invoke a creature's High Concept.

I wouldn't say this would be the exclusive way of doing it, though.  Pure Mortals should be able to make and use Holy Water.  If you limit it to potions, then Wizards become the best equipped to making it...which just isn't the case.  And any non-wizard with a custom power would(in game terms) lose a Pure Mortal bonus.

This was the list I was about to draw up. Totally agreed here. Non-True Faith characters *might* have to spend a FP to make some, if they don't have a stunt related to it, but I could probably fall either way on that.

In ref to all above... I would think that if a magic practitioner were to attempt to make holy water it might not be as strong as that made by a an actual priest.  For example... Harry could possible create something using his magic 'faith' that would have some effect, but I doubt if it would have the kind of punch some made by Father Forthill would.

If the potion mechanics are used, I'd be tempted to limit its effectiveness to a power/strength rating of 1 or 2, period -- whereas something from the good padre would have no effective limit except those imposed by other rules/circumstances.

[PirateJack]

I think, given that it can be made by anyone with enough faith, that a Conviction based manoeuvre would be the best way to handle it. That said, holy water is a Catholic practice more than anything else, and Catholicism is heavily wrapped up in ritual so you could just as easily run it as a common ritual.

[Haru]

I think, given that it can be made by anyone with enough faith, that a Conviction based manoeuvre would be the best way to handle it. That said, holy water is a Catholic practice more than anything else, and Catholicism is heavily wrapped up in ritual so you could just as easily run it as a common ritual.

That sounds reasonable. There definitely shouldn't be too much of a hindrance in getting holy water, but not everyone can create it, either. Harry, for example, lacks the faith for creating it, so he just keeps a few gallons of blessed water in his car. Easy.

To create holy water on the spot, there should at least be an aspect on the character describing his faith. For a wizard to create holy water with thaumaturgy, I would say no. However, that doesn't mean that he might not be able to create a catch satisfying potion or something along those lines. It would be a lot more effort and it would require a lot more ingredients, but that would be a way I would allow things to go.

I had a werewolf player once who doused himself in holy water he'd gotten from a priest before engaging a vampire and then just shook himself as his first action. It was quite bizarre, but it worked.

[Ardrikk]

Could a Knight of the Cross make holy water, then? If so, why does Michael never make any for Harry?  Or did Harry just ask Father Forthill to make it for him before he'd met Michael?

[dragoonbuster]

Could a Knight of the Cross make holy water, then? If so, why does Michael never make any for Harry?  Or did Harry just ask Father Forthill to make it for him before he'd met Michael?

Harry didn't really need it before he met Michael. Harry has said before that he asked Father Forthill for a big batch of it after the war with the Vampires broke out. I suspect a Knight could make it (I mean, just use the Holy Stirring Stick that is one of the swords and you've got insta-Holy) if he believed it was okay to do. But I imagine, if asked, the various book Knights would answer:

Michael - "That's really not my place, Harry. I'm not one of the clergy."
Sanya - "I am Agnostic. How would I make water 'holy'?"
Shiro - "Oh, no, I am sorry, but I am not a priest."


I've had a few Champion-of-God type players create Holy Water on the fly. Always as a Maneuver.