Quick and Dirty Domination

[Neepling]

Hi all,

I'm looking for suggestions on mechanics for quick and dirty Domination by a Black Court Vampire. As in making a character act for the vampire for a round or 2 in combat - a bit like the evil Christopher Lee stare with a very short effect, i.e. one Pc is made to attack another but only short lived.

I tried it in my last session as Discipline vs Discipline mental attack wearing the PC down into their consequences but it seemed a bit slow, clunky and nobody enjoyed it, not even me!

Any suggestions on how a quick and dirty short term domination may be played out?

cheers

John

[wyvern]

I'd probably run this as a reskin of the breath weapon power, actually.  Except that instead of breathing fire to attack / maneuver at range, the vampire momentarily mind-controls someone to take the action it wanted taken.  Let it use its discipline for such actions, with weapon rating based on what the subject has in hand, but also limit it to controlling people it can get an "eye contact" aspect on.

That way all of the PCs - even the one being "mind controlled" - still get all their normal actions, nobody's forced to stop playing, and it should be much faster & easier to adjudicate.

[dragoonbuster]

Not sure where you're getting Discipline vs Discipline on these conflicts, but Mental Conflicts--especially one involving domination over another being--should typically be Conviction attacking vs Discipline defending. You may also potentially justify Conviction as a defense.

Your ability to concentrate and keep your emotions in check doesn't let you run through someone's mind, your willpower--Conviction--does.

[Neepling]

The Your Story book describes Domination:- Psychic Domination as a Discipline vs Discipline attack, but reads as though it's clearly a behind the scenes kind of power.

I'm kind of liking the modified breath weapon approach with Attackers Discipline vs Defenders Conviction - may make it a lot less clunky and painful than last time.

cheers guys

[wyvern]

That's not quite how I meant that.

My idea was that, if the vampire wants to make person A attack person B, it needs to first maneuver to put an appropriate aspect on person A (something like "Foolish Mortal!" or "Feel your will seep away" or "Eyebite" or whatever - intimidation or deceit would be the skill(s) to use).  Once it's done that, it can then roll its discipline against person B's athletics (or fists or weapons or whatever else) as a direct physical attack, with the special effect of the attack just being "Person A, your arm moves against your volition and you find yourself trying to stab B." - it doesn't take up person A's action, and they can stop the puppeting by a discipline or conviction roll to remove the aspect the vampire placed.

Edit: Note that the vampire could also use this to attack person A, trying to make them stab themselves or jump off a cliff* or whatever.  And in this case person A could defend with their choice of discipline or athletics (or whatever else seems appropriate).

*Edit2: If you use the 'jump off a cliff' example, don't use the book's rules for falling damage!  It's just a weapon: 2 attack from the vampire's "breath weapon" power - the 'jump off a cliff' part is a special effect, not a mechanical one.

[Taran]

I like Wyvern's idea.  Especially needing to remove the aspect to prevent the Vamp from attacking in that way.

I'd like to expand.  Use the weapon damage of the person charmed.  Although, this might be powerful if someone has Mythic strength, but I think reasonable, especially considering they need a whole action to do nothing but create a maneuver.

Another option is Incite Effect 'compulsion'  (or something).

Place a maneuver vs discipline, then tag for effect and have the person use their next turn attacking an ally.  It's a compel triggered by a free tag.
It has the down-side that the vamp would need to use a FP's to have a person do it more than once.  But I suppose they could just move on to a new target.  Or you could have longer lasting compels:  'you can only do defensive actions for 3 exchanges'  or whatever...as long as its fair.

Incite lasting effect would have a person charmed for longer and compels on consequences could be more severe.  WCVs can already do this kind of thing, depending on the situation.

Another option: (my least favorite, now that I've put it in writing)

Make a Vamp that is specialized in charms.  Give it Mimic abilities.  After it creates an aspect, it can shuffle some of it's powers so that they are the same as a PC.  The attacks it does represent the PC's doing the attack.  But this allows for more variety in the types of attacks:  Like spellcasting and what-not.

[Shaft]

Isn't "establish eye contact" the maneuver?

[Shaft]

It seems like Dominate can be a pretty fast acting power, depending on the target's Discipline and Conviction.

Let's say a generic Black Court (Good Discipline, +3) is up against a normal human (Discipline and Conviction of 0).  On the first round, he rolls to establish eye contact (Maneuver) and on an average roll (net +3) succeeds with style.  He gets a +4 Bonus on the next round.

The next round, the Black Court Vampire rolls for domination.  On an average roll (net +3), after he adds the maneuver bonus, he inflicts 7 points of mental stress.

The human has to take a Severe consequence and loses 1 point of stress.  The human can elect to concede immediately, and yields to the vampire's control.

Not bad for two rounds, assuming average rolls and no Fate Point expenditure.

If the human didn't yield, the BCV could continue his attack, this time tagging the Severe Consequence for a net +5 effect.  The human would have to take a Moderate Consequence and lose his second mental stress box.

If he didn't yield at this point, next round he is taken out completely and can be made into  Renfield.

[Sanctaphrax]

It seems like Dominate can be a pretty fast acting power, depending on the target's Discipline and Conviction.

It can be quick in number-of-attacks terms. But since it requires a helpless captive, there's no reason to assume those attacks are quick.

Let's say a generic Black Court (Good Discipline, +3) is up against a normal human (Discipline and Conviction of 0).  On the first round, he rolls to establish eye contact (Maneuver) and on an average roll (net +3) succeeds with style.

Succeeding with style is a Fate Core thing. Doesn't apply here.

[Haru]

I would probably just do it by allowing the dominator to physically attack using presence (the command skill). It would have to be described as dominating someone for a second and making them attack someone else.

I would allow the defenders to choose to either defend using the discipline of the dominated target or to defend regularly, using athletics or whatever you've got there. I would not allow both, choose before you roll.

This should probably be an addition to the dominate power. Or not, allowing the discipline defense might be enough to balance it as just part of the dominate power.

[Kennifus Prime]

That's not quite how I meant that.

My idea was that, if the vampire wants to make person A attack person B, it needs to first maneuver to put an appropriate aspect on person A (something like "Foolish Mortal!" or "Feel your will seep away" or "Eyebite" or whatever - intimidation or deceit would be the skill(s) to use).  Once it's done that, it can then roll its discipline against person B's athletics (or fists or weapons or whatever else) as a direct physical attack, with the special effect of the attack just being "Person A, your arm moves against your volition and you find yourself trying to stab B." - it doesn't take up person A's action, and they can stop the puppeting by a discipline or conviction roll to remove the aspect the vampire placed.

Edit: Note that the vampire could also use this to attack person A, trying to make them stab themselves or jump off a cliff* or whatever.  And in this case person A could defend with their choice of discipline or athletics (or whatever else seems appropriate).

*Edit2: If you use the 'jump off a cliff' example, don't use the book's rules for falling damage!  It's just a weapon: 2 attack from the vampire's "breath weapon" power - the 'jump off a cliff' part is a special effect, not a mechanical one.

I really like this version. My question is since the vampire's opponent would get another turn what's to stop them from breaking the maneuver? Like let's say the maneuver is "Eye Contact". On the target's turn what if they sprint two zones away? Or simply close their eyes? Maybe I'm thinking of it too literally? Or just need to simply go the route of something like "Foolish Mortal!" instead? Thanks!

[PirateJack]

I'd probably go with a compel if you don't want the defender to just run away. Also, once it gets round to the defender's turn he's entitled to try and break the spell.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I'm quite impressed at the maturity of the responses.