High Fantasy Conversion

[RonLugge]

I've got some friends who are interested in RPGs, and have been having fun with 5E D&D.  Unfortunately, several of them are struggling with the rules-heavy nature of D&D -- and it's simply impossible for me as the DM to remember all the rules of every feature for them.  Just too much text.

DFRPG, on the other hand, is much lighter on the rules, and the 'exact text' rarely matters as much except as a clarifier for the basic concept.  It's easier to learn, easier to teach, and I think the fudge die approach is much better than a generic D20 roll.  Especially with fate points flying around.  Character sheets are a lot easier to read and understand, and there's a lot less 'inventory management' hassles.

That said, there is a lot of setting-oriented material to plow through, and I don't want to try and drag them all through it.  Most of them will read the actual books, eventually, and I don't want to spoil it for them -- and I'm simply too lazy to repeatedly info dump for some of the others, who will probably need a reminder every single time.  So I don't want to use the basic setting.

I went and looked, and as far as I can tell there aren't very many high-fantasy FATE systems currently.  (Found a referenence to one, but it was discontinued).  So -- as I imagine is obvious by now -- I had the bright idea of hacking DFRPG into a high fantasy system.

I'd love the advice of people more familiar than I am to extend, revise, and improve the basic conversion.

Here is a link to the google doc, please let me know what you think.  Thanks in advance.

[wyvern]

Some random bits of feedback:

The race creation rules seem overly complicated.  I'd probably drop this entirely and just say:
A race is a template.  Some races will have more stuff in that template than others.  Exactly what the musts and options are depends on what the table decides is appropriate
For example, a human (presumably) has no powers that they must buy, but also no options for racial powers that they could buy.  (Or perhaps you're running a setting where humans occasionally manifest psychic powers!  Which could alter the race template quite a bit...)
An elf might also have no musts, but be allowed to buy Echoes of the Beast (with the language provided being a specific fae tongue), Inhuman Speed, and/or some specific sponsored magic.  Or for a setting where elves are ancient immortals, they might have musts of Inhuman Recovery (w/ a Cold Iron catch) & Speed, with the potential to buy nearly any power.

There should be some table-wide discussion of whether the "pure mortal" refresh bonus is setting-appropriate.  Consider, as an alternative, making mortal stunts cost one refresh per two stunts - that, combined with the ability to make your own stunts that are exactly what your character needs, should put them on par with powers.

There should be some discussion of whether "Lawbreaker" powers are setting-appropriate - and if so, what the Laws of Magic should be for this setting, and whether or not there's anyone around who tries to kill off people who break them, and whether or not such powers should be limited to magic.

And, lastly, there are two specific powers I'd suggest banning: Demonic Co-Pilot and Feeding Dependency.  Having seen these in actual play, they both suffer from the flaws of requiring a significant amount of extra dice rolls and bookkeeping, as well as being abusable (especially on spellcasters with high discipline skills, who really don't need any more help).  I suggest using aspect invokes / compels in place of either of these powers.

[RonLugge]

Thanks for the comments.  You've given me some real food for thought.

I hadn't thought it through, but you make a good point that a 'pure mortal' concept may not make sense in this setting.  Getting rid of the power difference between stunts and powers might make sense.  It's a bit more of a hack than I'm fully comfortable with, but it makes sense -- depending on the table's choice, of course.

As for the banning of the abilities... that goes past just hacking to change the setting and into discussing how to 'fix' issues in DFRPG core.  Not that I object to such discussions, but they should be in their own thread, in their own place and time.

[Haru]

I don't think DFRPG is a good fit for High Fantasy. It's too set in its ways to do Dresden.

You should take a look at Fate Core, it's the latest, sleeker version of Fate. Adding to that, you should take a look at the Fate Toolkit, which gives you a lot of ways to deal with various things like fantasy races, magic, etc. There's also the Fate Freeport Companion, which is regarded as the Fate version of anything to do with classical Fantasy. Even if you don't use everything from it, I think you'll have a better time looking there for inspiration rather than DFRPG.

http://www.evilhat.com/home/fate-core/
http://www.evilhat.com/home/fate-system-toolkit/
http://www.evilhat.com/home/fate-freeport-companion/

Since they cost some money, I would get the Freeport companion first, I think that should fit most if not all your needs. The toolkit can be a bit technical. Fate Core is pay what you want.

[RonLugge]

Thanks, I'll have to look at those.  I knew that my next paycheck was probably going towards Fate Core anyway, but...

[RonLugge]

Though I'll also add that I don't want to throw away any of the wonderful, wonderful work that's gone into making Dresden.  I love things like weapon values are added to damage, rather than representing a minimum damage.  (And the corresponding armor inversion of reducing damage rather than capping it)  The way this exaggerates the incoming damage scale compared to what I understand of Fate Core...

You're right that Dresden spends a lot of time *being* Dresden, but a lot of hte rules just plain make sense!

[Sanctaphrax]

Fate Core and DFRPG are really very similar. You could port over DFRPG's weapon rules and Power list (minus a few setting-specific Powers) without much trouble.

You'd have to revise spellcasting, though, since Fate Core uses Will instead of Discipline and Conviction. Actually, you might want to use an entirely different casting system. The DFRPG one isn't very D&D-y.

You should also think about how you want to handle magic items. They tend to be more common in D&D-style fantasy than the DFRPG rules assume they will be.

A while back I converted a couple of Pathfinder characters to DFRPG. You might find the results to be worth a look.

EDIT: Healing magic is also a potential sticking point. Do you want to handle injuries Fate-style or D&D-style?

[RonLugge]

My basic idea is NOT to port D&D to fate.  I want to keep as much of Fate (and Dresden) as I can, while switching to a high-fantasy setting.  A lot of the players are relatively new to gaming, and hitting them over the head with a new system will be 'fun' enough without me having to learn it at the same time.  I wouldn't even consider it if it weren't for the fact that they can't handle the 5E rules, so I *need* the simpler rules of Dresden to help them along.

[Haru]

I love things like weapon values are added to damage, rather than representing a minimum damage. 

Core doesn't really know weapon ratings per default. There's a number of ways to do them, minimum damage is one of them, but you can transfer weapon ratings as well. I think I've seen a few other ways to do weapons, for example having differently colored dice, blue and red, and you add more red for a deadlier weapon. The number of + on red dice gets added on as damage if you hit. The toolkit offers some more, as does the G+ Fate group, if you're interested, there's already a lot of conversions floating around out there.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Seriously though: Take a look at Fate Core and the system toolkit.  Both are pay what you like and can be adapted to high fantasy pretty well.

The other issue here is you're not describing the setting you'd like to use.  If you don't do that, you're going to have problems with people assuming you want D&D in FATE or some other assumptions.  Give us the setting, we can help with crunch.

[RonLugge]

Seriously though: Take a look at Fate Core and the system toolkit.  Both are pay what you like and can be adapted to high fantasy pretty well.

The other issue here is you're not describing the setting you'd like to use.  If you don't do that, you're going to have problems with people assuming you want D&D in FATE or some other assumptions.  Give us the setting, we can help with crunch.

Definitely going to look at both of those.  They're on my to-purchase list as funds allow.

As for the setting... I'm not sure I can get much more descriptive.  It's high fantasy.  Swords and sorcery.  Which -- IMO -- the basic Dresden system seems well set up to handle with only minor tweaks.  I *like* the basic flavor of Dresden.

[Taran]

I think a big issue with Dresden is, in a High Fantasy world, if you allow wizards to walk around casting spells with no draw-back, they could out-shine other characters.

Part of what balances Wizards is they can't get too flashy in many situations, they hex technology and there is Laws that prevent them from killing mortals.  (which doesn't much come into play against monsters - so maybe it doesn't matter)

You'll lose a bit of the standard compels that wizards have.

Some may disagree, though.

[RonLugge]

Personally, I'm planning to keep the laws in place.  And the technology hexing... doesn't come up all that often at my tables.  Honestly, hexing tech is more of a compel opportunity for wizards than anything else -- removing it would make them weaker, not stronger.  (Or am I missing something?)

[Sanctaphrax]

Compels aren't, or at least shouldn't be, a bad thing. So I wouldn't worry about the consequences of removing hexing.

That aside, high fantasy is an incredibly broad category. Arguably broader than everything else put together. So I'm really not sure what you're going for here.

[RonLugge]

That aside, high fantasy is an incredibly broad category. Arguably broader than everything else put together. So I'm really not sure what you're going for here.

Because I don't have a single, specific setting in mind.

"Medieval times" type setting, with kingdoms, kings, queens, peasants, merchants, nobles, etc etc.  Monsters roaming the land.  Heroes to oppose them.  Etc etc.  It's a very very broad theme.  Deliberately.