Author Topic: Player problem  (Read 2876 times)

Offline blackstaff67

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Player problem
« on: November 24, 2015, 05:57:34 PM »
I've a new player joining the group.  She's new to the system but played in other RPGs. 
Problem arises here: Sweet as she is, she's not-so-good (though not altogether hopeless) at role-playing out social interactions.  She can do conversation and all, but were I to say as GM, "You wanna talk him out of something using Rapport?  Okay, gimme your spiel and roll dem bones..."  It kinda comes out flat.  Kinda need some GMing advice here.
My Purity score: 37.2.  Sad.

Offline Shaft

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Re: Player problem
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 06:22:19 PM »
What is the character's Rapport?

Offline Haru

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Re: Player problem
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 08:11:33 PM »
One thing that helps with social interaction in Fate is to reverse things. Roll, then act out the result. Because when you start out and try something and eh, the other guy rolled higher, you've kind of set yourself up in a weird way. If you know you win or lose this roll, you have an easier time going for what is said and how it might be said.
It also gives you the option to say "Come on, you succeeded with 3 shifts, gimme a little more here". You can push that onto the dice, making it less personal. It's not you who wants her to come up with something clever, it's the dice, damnit!

In the meantime, you could have the other players chime in. If you go the "dice first" option, the dice demand something big, be it fail or success. You're all in that together now, so you can try to solve it together. You can do the same for "I shoot it" descriptions to come up with something more interesting, so she doesn't feel singled out.

It could also be that she might not have a good grasp on the world, which makes it hard for her to click with the game like that. It's a weird thing for me, I can come up with quite decent dialog in English, I believe, but when I play DFRPG in German, I'm having a hard time, because 95% of my DFing is done in English. I literally don't know what to say. So maybe if she can listen to the audiobooks, get her a bit into the feel of the world, that might help.

It might also be that she doesn't know all that much about the world, so she's unsure of what she can and can't say. This is also a problem I've had quite recently, when my gaming group was so exited to play their childhood system with this epic storyline with tons of important NPCs and all that. Only I've never played that a day in my life. Never read anything on it, I was barely aware it existed. As such, I was completely lost for a long time and still am, so when it comes to dialog, my side of the conversation is rather dull and muted as well. I simply don't know what to say. I don't even know the lingo.

First and foremost, I would be honest. It seems that it's your problem first and foremost and not hers. She might not even be aware that there IS a problem, right? Maybe talk to her in private and tell her that you noticed this and that it feels like she's not getting a connection to the game and ask her what you could do to help. It's probably easier than accusing her of doing something badly. Which, after all, isn't what you are trying to do in the first place. Maybe you can workshop something, if she's up for it. Go over scenes you played and come up with something a bit more fuego for the dialog. Maybe come up with catchphrases for her character, that she can use to spice things up.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline Taran

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Re: Player problem
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 08:30:01 PM »
Yes, roll the dice first.

Then you, as the experienced player, can rp the reaction.  If she rolls well, the NPC might 'recoil from the rebuff' or 'flush pink in embarrassment' etc...

It doesn't really matter what she says, only that she succeeds or fails and by how much.  If she fails to roll well, the NPC will act accordingly.  Just as long as the NPC is acting towards the character and not the player.  You don`t want to humiliate her for poor rping.

I have a perfect example:  I`m playing a Soldier with +5 Intimidate and the Taunt stunt.  So he can trash talk with a base roll of +7(Epic).

Now, I myself, am not a great trash-talker.  In fact, despite the fact that I am playing PbP and have tonnes of time to think up great insults, I still have to google stuff to find funny and interesting things to use for my Intimidate checks.  I'm not sure I could play this character in a real table top campaign.  I'm just not quick enough on my feet - and maybe that's the trouble with your player...  But, see below.

Overall, my taunts are pretty childish.  Now, this is a 19 refresh game and we're dealing with Denarians and other powerful beings so it might not be believable that someone like a Denarian would take a childish insult to heart....But, it's not me delivering the lines, it's a 6'8 cyborg with a gravity hammer.  In my mind, It's not WHAT he says, it's HOW he says it.  His attitude, his delivery, his mannerisms - these are all done by the character and not, necessarily by the player and the GM has the NPC's act accordingly. 

Here's an example of a particularly bad insult.  I mean, even I admit that this was a poorly chosen insult:

Quote from: taran
I heard you can't be killed permanently and, I didn't believe it at first but, now that I've met you, I can see that it's actually true: Nobody can be as stupid as you in one lifetime.

Quote from: GM
"The quality of your insults you choose is actually more insulting than the insults themselves. Don't I deserve better?"

Despite his contemptuous words, you can tell that you're getting to him.

(Discipline defence 6, so he's SHAKEN BY THE AMERICAN.)

P.S:  you can even give her hints or embellish what she says through the NPC by reiterating what she said from the NPC's point of view and spinning it.

And yes, let other players give her hints or embellish what she wants to say, once you know how much she succeeded or failed.

Edit: O.k, it might matter what she says - since it's a conversation, and a conversation usually has to go somewhere.

But you can always give suggestions based on the roll.  "you know, Winter fae really like..." or "A Knight of the cross would find something like xyz insulting/funny/honourable"
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 01:18:23 PM by Taran »

Offline toturi

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Re: Player problem
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 03:57:23 AM »
I agree that not all communication needs to be RPed verbally. If the player isn't comfortable with actually saying anything, the character doesn't need to say anything to be RPing a social encounter. Even for a conversation, sitting tight and letting your silence speak for you can work.
With your laws of magic, wizards would pretty much just be helpless carebears who can only do magic tricks. - BumblingBear

Offline blackstaff67

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Re: Player problem
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2015, 05:04:43 AM »
Yeah, I'm thinking that letting the dice happen first and then narrating stuff might be the better path.  I've been GMing for over 20 years and still discovering stuff.

I'm gonna force myself to go easy on her and let things happen as they do..and remind myself it's just a game.
My Purity score: 37.2.  Sad.

Offline Lawgiver

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Re: Player problem
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2015, 05:01:11 PM »
You don`t want to humiliate her for poor rping.
I agree with this part in particular.  Depending on how much RP experience she's had... and which particular system(s) she's played, the DFRPG might be a radical change and she's having trouble grasping the essentials.

Example:  Olde tyme D&D (1st and 2nd Editions) is very much a stat-based game.  If a character is interacting with an NPC (say they're haggling a sale), the player doesn't need to do much in the way of RPing, just point to their Charisma bonuses (if any) and let the DM use that in making a Reaction roll on a pass/fail for the result.  The convo doesn't really have to happen at all.  With the DF game, though -- being a skill-based game rather that stat-based -- it's about the story and drama, the use of one's personal resources (in this case a social skill) and how it actually plays out.  It involves far more depth of role playing (or at least approaching role playing from a very different direction) than older RPGs used to demand.  It can take time to get used to.

I'd recommend the group approach mentioned earlier. Get the others involved and have them help you coach her.  She'll get a better feeling about herself and the game if she feels appreciated by her peers (other players) rather than just getting criticized (however nicely) by the GM.
"Sufficiently advanced technology," my ass.