"Rent" a discussion on Goodman Grey

[Serack]

I don't play the DFRPG, but I own and have read the books (long ago) and sometimes consider aspects of the canon Dresden Files from a perspective of the DFRPG game mechanics.

One of the things that I found insightful is the mechanism I remember for a PC who gains more and more power becoming less and less dynamic in what choices they can freely make.  Their power constrains their free will, to the point that if they get too powerful, they become an NPC.

I interpreted this as a free willed being becoming a static monster/benevolent being.

I'd like some of the DFRPG wonks opinions on this interpretation of what Goodman Grey's "Rent" could be, and if it could potentially help a PC modeled after Goodman Grey or Vadderung remain a PC.

I don't think he [Goodman Grey] is an agent for Odin, only that Odin is one of the people who knows how to arrange to hire him.

Their payment's are similar.  Perhaps they both pay rent.

Wow, that's actually rather deep. 

• We know from WoJ that Odin as Vadderung has embraced a measure of mortality (able to be killed) as a price for being able to effect things more on the mortal plane.
• According to Bob, the Naagloshii were immortal messengers that were supposed to leave the mortal plane with the Holy People, and selfishly stayed behind and were corrupted by their power into the evil beings they are now.
• Perhaps Odin has to do some kind of selfless, but mercenary acts to pay "Rent" and avoid his power corrupting him into a static (non free willed) malignancy of evil
• Perhaps he explained to Goodman Grey how to do the same to avoid his progenitor's decent into evil

In this model, by performing mercenary tasks assigned and paid for by free willed mortals, the powerful being that would otherwise become a "soul-less monster" retains a right to continue on the mortal plane as a free willed individual (Pays rent).

[wyvern]

Hm... I could see modeling that as a +1 rebate that comes in as a "and every game session you gain one point of sponsor debt" kind of thing.

Alternatively, give Goodman Grey a trouble aspect of "Gotta pay the Rent", and then a +1 rebate power that just says "Any compel on your trouble aspect doesn't give you a fate point for accepting."

Something like this wouldn't really work for Vadderung, though, unless he's also somehow set aside a large portion of his power when he acts in the mortal plane.  A +1 rebate - even a +2 if you can somehow justify that - isn't going to grant free will to a major power.  It would, however, be enough to help someone who was right on the edge keep their free will.  Might be interesting to use something like this to let a player keep a spellcaster who just acquired a lawbreaker power...

[Sanctaphrax]

I really think the Rent should just be an Aspect. That sort of rebate Power is pretty much never a good idea. And Aspects handle this sort of thing really well. You do something onerous (accept a Compel) and get some measure of free will (a Fate Point) in exchange.

But yeah, someone like Odin would have to actually reduce his total Power count to go into positive Refresh. Ditching Physical Immunity and special god Powers might be enough for that, or it might not be.

vultur wrote up some stats for Odin here. Not sure if they're relevant to this thread, but they might be.

[Haru]

This might belong in the quarantine section, since it covers the latest book. Not sure how up to date everyone in this part of the board is.

To be able to play a character like this, all I would require is an aspect and at least one point of remaining refresh, just like any other character.

When it comes to Grey, I think the "Rent" is simply due to his heritage. He is, after all, a scion of a naagloshi, and from what we know, they need to stay on tribal land to have their full power or maybe even to be able to exist. Now Grey might get out of the second one due to being part human, but he will have the same limitation on his powers as the naagloshi. He needs to be on tribal land or at least regularly visit tribal land to charge up his powers. Now from how he talked about it, it doesn't seem to be that there is much love for his naagloshi parent, which to me would mean that he would stay as far away from tribal land as possible. Yet he has full control of his powers.

To me, that says that he is cheating. He's got access to tribal land without having to fear his parent. Maybe he even carries tribal land with him in some way, so he can always act as if he is standing at the source of his power.

That probably involves a deal of sorts. Maybe with one of the queens. Another naagloshi. A god. Who knows? But in order to be allowed to continue tapping into that power, he needs to pay rent.


Now Vadderung is a bit odd. Now everyone assumes that he is Odin. Fair enough, all the signs are there. But for the purposes of this, I would propose another idea: He was Odin. He had the Odin mantle, but he gave it away. Or destroyed it. Or transformed it. Or bargained it away. In any case, he is basically a very powerful wizard now, maybe with some remnants of the Odin mantle still with him, some knowledge, for example, but not the full Odin mantle. Maybe the god mantles had made a deal that wouldn't allow them to inject themselves into certain conflicts. To get around this, Vadderung put down the mantle that would restrict him and only kept mantles that wouldn't hinder him in pursuing his goals. As a player character, you probably have to dial him down quite a bit. He'd be a full wizard at least, and then some.

Maybe, Vadderung even split up his Odin mantle among his children and their children and so forth, letting the mantle go into the bloodline, as it were. His comment about his children could hint at that.

[Serack]

I believe Jim said at an interview lately that "Rent" is the quality that lets him retain his humanity or free will (I don't remember which of the 2 he said)

[Haru]

I did not know that. Though it might still be similar, putting a fence around the supernatural side of Grey, so he isn't taken over by it when he uses the power. A sort of buffer that allows his mortal will to control the power.

[Taran]

I believe Jim said at an interview lately that "Rent" is the quality that lets him retain his humanity or free will (I don't remember which of the 2 he said)

Game-wise, that might just represent lots of accepted compels.

So maybe he has an aspect that reflects his desire to help or maintain his humanity.  This gets compelled.  He accepts and now has a FP to buy off compels that encourage his darker urges.   FPs are a currency, after all, so it fits the rent idea. 

You don't even need to have positive refresh for this to work.

[Sanctaphrax]

You could maybe cook up some kind of Feeding Dependency variant if you wanted the Rent to affect Grey's Refresh, but I don't think it'd be a good idea. Messing with Compels tends to go badly.

This might belong in the quarantine section, since it covers the latest book. Not sure how up to date everyone in this part of the board is.

Skin Game is available in paperback and came out over a year ago. It's fine.