Cinder Spires Setting discussion [TAW Sample Chapter SPOILERS]

[Mith]

For what it's worth, they have moved away from The Big K and are now defining the kilogram using Avogadro's number and Si-28. - 

[Quantus]

For what it's worth, they have moved away from The Big K and are now defining the kilogram using Avogadro's number and Si-28. - 

Oh, sure, that's one of a bunch of new/revised definitions that have various levels of support.  In the case of the Kilogram, it's the only one left that is still standardized to a specific artifact rather than a physical constant of some kind (though other are defined by the kg, so it's hidden in them too), and the two most popular methods are to base it off either the Planck constant or the Avogadro constant.

[Mith]

From what I am finding, they are currently refining equipment for precision to go ahead with this transfer of the definition of the Kg.  Which is good, because after that happens, we will no longer define one of our Seven Fundamental Units for Understanding Life, the Universe, and Everything on an over sized, multi-million dollar paper weight. 

[Quantus]

From what I am finding, they are currently refining equipment for precision to go ahead with this transfer of the definition of the Kg.  Which is good, because after that happens, we will no longer define one of our Seven Fundamental Units for Understanding Life, the Universe, and Everything on an over sized, multi-million dollar paper weight. 

Yup, if they succeed at solving the manufacturing problems they hope to offer it up as a viable Atom-counting alternative to the Planck constant (energy based) approach, which it turns out was accepted back in 2011 as the path forward, though at the same time they (the International Committee for Weights and Measures) postponed their next conference to 2015, so the change-over hasnt happened yet.  Well, what they did was: "Accept a resolution to 'Take note of an intention' that the kilogram be defined in terms of the Planck constant, h (which has dimensions of energy times time) together with other fundamental units."  That contains far too much parliamentary gibberish for me to pull any definitive meaning 

[Mith]

I think it's more the sensitivity of everything involved makes the desire for a second path to check the other is what is making the switch over so slow, and so expensive.  That and the bureaucracy needed to organize everything also seems to make things so slow. But I am sure they had good reasons.

[Holywhippet]

Probably this planet was colonised.  Genetically modified plants and modifying your live stock to not actually need to graze, or poop or move sounds good for a colony ship, and later on this world where the ground is not very hospitable.  For some reason, they've back slid, maybe they're not quite neo-barbs, but they're a shadow of what the original colonists were...

 I was thinking along the same lines as I went through the book. My main reasoning is that they've stated outright that the surface world is too hostile for humans to safely live on. If that is the case then humans could not have evolved there let alone have lived long enough and advanced far enough to build the spires. From what I've read vat grown meat is something that scientists are working on today.

[Ulfgeir]

As much as I dislike the archaic measurements favoured in the US, they do have one advantage (at least for shorter measurements): you can easily get a rough estimate of length using just parts of your body.

As for the setting, I agree that it isn't much that is steampowered in it. I do love it though.

/Ulfgeir

[Morenath]

No, I get that "printing" meat is a possible function for the vats.  I'm just reluctant to say that's the most likely function.  That kind of technology doesn't mesh well with the genre, even with handwaved crystal technology.  The setting doesn't seem to have enough scientific background to be able to handle artificial meat.

I always imagined it like when they do limb replacement and such in sci-fi space movies.   The character that is hurt is usually submerged in a tank, and machines (or lazers or whatever) grow the artificial replacement back.  Some examples are Starship Troopers, with Rico.  Age of Ultron, with Hawkeye.  Matrix, with everyone pre-pill.

A vat doesn't necessarily mean the product is a liquid, or even semi-solid.  I imagine the process is like this.

1 ) fill a big ass vat full of enzymes.
2) load in a crystal somewhere (maybe a crystal rod inside the vat, maybe two opposite polarity crystals on either end)
3) energize crystal
4) wait for the enzymes to gather in groups due to the crystal's etheric charge (the way static gathers lint)
5) pull out the completed piece of meat product
6) chop it up

Precedent is there, just not for food.

[Quantus]

I always imagined it like when they do limb replacement and such in sci-fi space movies.   The character that is hurt is usually submerged in a tank, and machines (or lazers or whatever) grow the artificial replacement back.  Some examples are Starship Troopers, with Rico.  Age of Ultron, with Hawkeye.  Matrix, with everyone pre-pill.

A vat doesn't necessarily mean the product is a liquid, or even semi-solid.  I imagine the process is like this.

1 ) fill a big ass vat full of enzymes.
2) load in a crystal somewhere (maybe a crystal rod inside the vat, maybe two opposite polarity crystals on either end)
3) energize crystal
4) wait for the enzymes to gather in groups due to the crystal's etheric charge (the way static gathers lint)
5) pull out the completed piece of meat product
6) chop it up

Precedent is there, just not for food.

That sounds about right.  Especially given the part where they have to repeatedly peal of a leather 'rind' to allow it to continue growing, it makes me imagine something that layers up.  I expect it would have what by our definition would be a distinctly odd texture. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that this is an example of a sharply declined society, from a technological point of view.  They may not have the scientific understanding to actually pioneer that sort of technology, but they could easily have the basic capabilities to apply the knowledge and maintain the systems, the The Builders blazed the trail for them. 

[kazimmoinuddin]

I wonder if the builders created the original version of the vatteries?

I wonder why power crystals are the only one that gain in strength over time and use. Imagine if the other crystal can be grown so they mimic power crystals in this form. It would allow large scale implementation of high level crystal engineering. So not just used for the military or the nobility.

[Quantus]

I wonder if the builders created the original version of the vatteries?

I wonder why power crystals are the only one that gain in strength over time and use. Imagine if the other crystal can be grown so they mimic power crystals in this form. It would allow large scale implementation of high level crystal engineering. So not just used for the military or the nobility.

I think Core crystals are life-forms.  If weapons crystals and lift crystals are equivalent to Vat meat, Core crystals are actual animals that are growing and maturing. 

[knnn]

That sounds about right.  Especially given the part where they have to repeatedly peal of a leather 'rind' to allow it to continue growing,

The have wool (or at least something called "wool"), so it may be more than just a rind.

[Quantus]

The have wool (or at least something called "wool"), so it may be more than just a rind.

INteresting point, I never considered where their textile fiber comes from.  they have hydroponic Gardens, so fibers from common sources (Cotton, hemp, etc) are simple enough.  But animal fibers are a different matter, and being another byproduct of Vattery meat along with Leather makes as much sense as anything.

[knnn]

But animal fibers are a different matter, and being another byproduct of Vattery meat along with Leather makes as much sense as anything.

Either that or they use cat fur....   

[Quantus]

Either that or they use cat fur....   

like the cats would stand for that...