Technomagic Help

[Steed]

So I was reading this article and thought it had some neat ideas that could be ported to DFRPG easily enough.  The City Domain Cleric could already be pretty easily constructed using the Urban Magic sponsored magic from the resources wiki, possibly with a couple of True Faith powers thrown in if you want more of a cleric-y feel.  The one that really intrigued me, though, was the new Warlock pact option, bargaining with a digital entity called the Ghost in the Machine for power over technology.  The idea of a gray hat hacker who discovers this new entity and bargains with it for power came to mind, but I'm having trouble constructing it mechanically.

One big stumbling block I'm running into is Agenda.  What would this thing's agenda be?  On the one hand I thought, hey, if this is a new power of some sort, maybe it's Agenda is just to expand its influence and recognition.  This feels a little like a cop-out, though, since in practice anyone that just doing anything with the powers is in line with it.  Perhaps that's okay, since it is more limited in some ways than the more versatile magics, but it still feels like there should be something meatier there.

Application-wise, the abilities and new spells listed in the document give me some neat ideas for evocation and thaumaturgic applications.  Using a smartphone, tablet, or a laptop as a focus item, and apps as potions, seems like a really neat idea to me.  Evocation with it would likely utilize electricity, either directly for something really flashy, or overloading electrical devices that the victim has to cause them damage (ever seen any of those viral videos of overcharged smartphone batteries exploding?) or directly controlling them as a sort of psychomancy-for-computerized systems.  As far as the thaumaturgy end of the spectrum goes, one idea that immediately leaps to mind is a scrying ritual that uses security cameras or traffic cameras, or a locator spell that uses facial recognition software and traffic camera footage or satellite imagery.  Evothaum could be bypassing electronic locks, infecting computerized systems with various malware, etc.  If anyone has any suggestions for other applications, I'd love to hear them.

So, what say you, assembled masses?

[wyvern]

Agenda's an interesting one, and should ideally be tied into the game setting.  Expanding influence and recognition is a good basic one; any such entity might have a goal of getting itself on the Accords, for example, or of expanding the number of mortals who have made pacts with it.  What else such an entity might want needs a bit more information than just "Ghost in the Machine".

Perhaps it's the spirit of Security, with an agenda of hunting down hackers and keeping people Safe (even if they don't want to be, or even if safety impinges on US ideals of freedom...)

Perhaps it's more a spirit of secrets and cryptography that communicates via complex mathematical formulae and has an agenda of making information public - and a final goal of bringing the supernatural to the public attention.

Perhaps it's more of a literal ghost, with an agenda that matches up with the former goals of whatever human left such an imprint on the ether.

Work out a bit more of who and what it is, and the agenda should become more obvious.

[Steed]

That's part of my problem with the agenda.  The aspect I like about the Ghost in the Machine is the enigma of it.  Even when you've made a deal with it, you don't entirely know what you've made a deal with.

[wyvern]

Ahh, yes, I was coming at this from the point of view of the GM.

From the point of view of the player, I'd probably prefer to leave it mysterious and then maybe include a handful of examples of agendas in case the GM doesn't want to invent one themself.

[Steed]

Yeah, that's sort of how I was coming at it.  There's also no saying it couldn't be a mix.  Maybe a hacker died and his ghost somehow bonded with a nascent digital godling or something.  Or maybe it's just straight-up American Gods-style new god of technology.

[Haru]

Well, I think it highly depends on what sort of creature we're dealing with. If it is a ghost that's gotten into internet, the agenda could be virtually anything. But I feel like it would be cooler to have something new, creating a new mantel, if you will.
Now going with that, I'd say there are 2 types that could be out there. One would be an AI that was either created with a purpose in mind or emerged out of something. In any case, this would definitely have an agenda, and it could be relatively free as well, depending on what it was designed to do or what happened to make it emerge. Could be neutral, could be good, could be evil.
And then it could be a virus. A virus would simply want to spread itself around and damage, deceive, corrupt, etc. Bad stuff.

Now I think an AI would be more interesting for a player character. It could be spliced off Wikipedia, being sort of the AI version of Ivy, gathering knowledge wherever it can. This would be rather neutral, I'd say, knowledge can be used for good and for evil, but it isn't any of those inherently. Other AIs are possible as well, of course. A top of the line security system going rogue. This one would probably view the place it was set up to protect as its home, but it would be able to work anywhere there is wifi. Or a spy algorithm gone rogue, gathering and analyzing data about people. And so on.

Now depending on what's what, it would probably change the kinds of "spells" you can work. A lot of it would probably be divination though, the internet is THE information highway, after all. Though it seems to me that none of them would want to overload a device to kill it, because that would mean one more device they can't use their power on. Instead, I would say it makes a lot more sense for them to be able to highjack those devices instead and make them do stuff they can actually do. A phone going of can be enough of a distraction, after all, to sneak in somewhere, so why maim someone with it? And you can use it for so many more things once you've got a link to it.

You might be interested in reading up on some Shadowrun. I've not looked into 5th edition yet, as I don't have a group to play it with. But this has existed since 4th edition, so that should be fine. There are, among other things, technomancers. Basically people who are born with the ability to interface with the wireless internet (called the matrix) without the need for any technology, like regular folk use. There are also some AIs, one of which is famous and has taken over the entire matrix for a while. There are also things called sprites, that are basically the technomancers versions of ghosts. Short, little programs he can summon up to do his bidding. There's an entire book on the matrix and how it works for the game, I'm sure you could draw lots of inspiration from there.

[Steed]

The overloads wouldn't necessarily kill the device, especially since the magic could also do Evothaum repairs.  The entity might not care, especially if it is, or started as, the ghost of a hacker and sees technology as its tools rather than its subjects or part of it.  A god of technology could possibly see it along the lines of handling a troublesome follower.  Ultimately, it's an idea I thought was neat about the original concept and something I'd like to keep intact in the translation if it's possible.

I have looked at some Shadowrun stuff.  I like it a lot, but some of it depends on the cyberpunk setting, and I'm trying to fit this into a modern-ish one.

[Amelia Crane]

It's a little bit of a cop-out , but you could say that the Ghost in the Machine is too alien and too enigmatic and too intelligent (and yet at the same time probably incredibly naive) to be understood by humans and model the agenda with randomness.  Just roll a fate die and if it comes up a "-" then the Ghost does not approve of that course of action.  Bonus points if you don't let your players know you're doing it randomly and they constantly try to figure out what the agenda is.

The alternative is to figure out the story behind the Ghost in the Machine.  Maybe it was a digitized human mind that got trapped there.  Or maybe this guy's ghost got stuck in the first computers and has grown and adapted to his new home and all he wants to do is feed on flowers and fly towards lights, neither of which exist in the machine world.  Alternatively, the Ghost in the Machine might have a less biological origin.  It might be the last lingering fragment of Hephaestus.  Or it could be an accumulation of all the emotions: hopes, fears, lusts, and angsts that humans have poured into the internet in its short history.  Or it could be an entity made by Mother Winter to subtly enhance humanity's cruelty.  Just pick an explanation then figure out what that means for the agenda.

[Taran]

Read some William Gibson:  Neuromancer and the two books that follow (I forget the titles).  They, basically, deal with Ghosts and AI and uploading consciousness.

Maybe it's a rich guy who found a way to upload his brain and now he's immortal.  He, basically, has the goals of a normal person but is immortal.  What would he want:  take over companies, steal money, create a new body, find a living host body (possibly a supernatural one...)  Now you are looking at super long-term goals.

Maybe they miss the person they love and now want to create a copy of them, somehow, to live with forever in the Machine...who is that person?  Alive?  Dead?  How will you find them?  How will you upload their consciousness?  Do they want to be uploaded?


Lots of possibilities.

[bobjob]

Read some William Gibson:  Neuromancer and the two books that follow (I forget the titles). 

Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive. Both great stories.

[JohnDKBalman]

As I was reading this the idea I had was of cyber version of Nicodemus shadow. (reference skin games) . So your character would be more of the "knowledge is power" kind of guy.  He has the entire net and paranet forums at his fingers tips. He my not gain flash combat abilities per say. But he knows ever record bit of knowledge on the web ( this side of Ivy). 

.... Now thats is an interesting angle you could play with. How would Ivy feel about another being being aware of all written works ( well upload to the web) or any conversation done around tech. That could conflict with her mission possibly. 

I could also see were this mantel would cause EXTREME paranoia. We know that Winter focuses on baser instincts. Just imagine what that much knowledge could do to you mind...... fun times

[Second Aristh]

If you want to go with some kind of technomancer character, my suggestion would be to think smaller scale with your Ghost in the Machine sponsor.  The character could be sharing a body with some kind of technology spirit (bonus points if your name it Jarvis and call yourself a billionaire playboy philanthropist).  Your sponsored magic would then be sending that spirit forth to screw around with machines and technology around you.  You could send a forklift chasing a bad guy, draw electricity from power lines, set off a building's sprinkler system, hook up to the security camera grid, etc.  It's all of the technomancer type magic with using a spirit as the reasoning behind why your magic doesn't hex everything out.

Then as far as an agenda goes, perhaps the Ghost in the Machine wants to understand organic lifeforms, so your GM can start compelling you to investigate things that the Ghost doesn't get.  That's just one idea.  The agenda is really pretty flexible as far as storyline goes in this situation.  It could be related to how the spirit came into being, or anything really.  Maybe even go with a reskinned Demonic Co-pilot as an additional power.

[blackstaff67]

Find out why/how the city was founded and you've got the agenda.  Some grew up besides fortresses, others on crossroads, county seats, on rivers for trade...digging into that will reveal your Agenda.

[Steed]

Blackstaff, I think you're mistaking the City domain thing as being part of the Ghost in the Machine entry.  That's a Cleric thing, not part of the entry we're talking about.  Ghost in the Machine has nothing to do with city magic, except where it can mess with certain technological devices used by the city.

As for the Agenda, I see what you guys are saying about not being okay with killing tech, but that was a feature of the thing I was looking to preserve in the translation.  Not so much because of the killing tech, but because of the direct attack ability.  What if it didn't kill the tech?  In the "overloading the mook's smartphone" example, what if there was still a huge electrical surge, but instead of damaging the phone, the magic protected it and the phone acted as just a vehicle to deliver the shock to the mook?  That would preserve the direct attack feature I like about it without being quite as problematic from the Agenda standpoint.  Would that be feasible?

[Taran]

I'm not sure what you mean about not killing tech.  I think that's fine.  The Ghost isn't technology - it just lives in it.  Humans rip apart/exploit the planet even though they live on it.  I don't see why the Ghost wouldn't do the same.

I like one of the suggestions of having the sponsor being a Omni-present being that exists in all tech, so you can use it to control cars, or fry batteries etc...or hops from your character as a temporary passenger, into other items.  I like the idea of having a phone where it can get around.  Let's say you have a closed network in the middle of no-where that's detached from the grid.  You can transport your sponsor in your phone.

I think, for Agenda, having it take over - or at least be present everywhere is a good one - like a virus - even if it's just passive.   Why does it want to do that?  Only the GM would know.  But it could be to learn more about the human species, or to manipulate world Markets or be as bad as SkyNet.