Trying to implement magic from outside sources.

[TheEnoch]

Ok I like odd ideas for magic within this world, thaumaturge being one of my favourites due to its limitless potential, but two particular "magics" I have seen outside of the dresdenverse I would like to move in.

From Bleach a power from the final big bad of the current manga Yhwach known as Power Bestowal which later becomes Letter Empowerment. This power is the idea of using your own soul/energy to enhance others you have touched basically creating a link. Basically like a reverse mimic abilities but it feels like magic would be more appropriate. Letter Empowerment is a step higher where the person you give power to has a letter burned into their soul, I would make it a brand or tattoo where the power granted is associated to that letter so say you burn F on them then perhaps oh I dont know you can empower Fire some how. Again I am amused to hear how you would do this since I am trying to work it out as a spellcaster who cant directly cast magic though anyone he grants power to in time he can reclaim said power back and with any interest associated with it since it may have gotten stronger.

Number 2 is a magic I expected to see within Dresden but not covered the almighty Voodoo. Now Voodoo from what me and my friends have tried to figure out is a real head scratcher. Voodoo has heavy influence on your faith and what Loas you believe in which provides your list of powers in a sense. It also offers the temptation of dark magic via voodoo dolls for domination and such. So a simple one but how would you work it? Issue we have is how to tie in a sort of faith power mechanic to leads to you being able to do some funky magic tricks.

So yeah figured this thread be an amusing place to discuss outside sources of magic not in dresden or could potentially be. Hopefully I havent been stupid and this has been posted before.

[Theclawmasheen]

1. This is a very tricky one to do, because FATE is more about you get what you pay for. So if you want to play a bird, that's awesome but without paying refresh for Wings then you can't fly. So, the mechanics of the system don't really afford for the ability to bestow power on other people. However, there are a few ways to try it. Simplest is just aspects. Give the character Thaumaturgy and then only the ability to use it one other people. Then the characters use aspects to simulate power bestowal. A more complicated way is to use the Temporary Powers rules, make a -1 or -2 refresh power that justifies your character giving powers to people and then have him spend fate points for those temporary powers.

2. Voodoo is pretty easy to simulate, its a just a combination of True Faith and Thaumaturgy. The Thaumaturgy would have a focus on Entropomancy and Enchanted Items and the True Faith powers would probably include Righteousness and maybe Guide My Hand.

[dragoonbuster]

Number 2 is a magic I expected to see within Dresden but not covered the almighty Voodoo. Now Voodoo from what me and my friends have tried to figure out is a real head scratcher. Voodoo has heavy influence on your faith and what Loas you believe in which provides your list of powers in a sense. It also offers the temptation of dark magic via voodoo dolls for domination and such. So a simple one but how would you work it? Issue we have is how to tie in a sort of faith power mechanic to leads to you being able to do some funky magic tricks.

I don't see any need for True Faith there...you could add it in, if you want, but it's not necessary. Harry's said more than once that your magic works how you think it should...if you think must have faith, think you must have a shrunken head to do X, think must have cock's blood and St. John's Wort for Y, then you need it. Those are all simply trappings of your thaumaturgy. There's nothing that voodoo does that you can't do with Thaumaturgy.

[PirateJack]

I don't see any need for True Faith there...you could add it in, if you want, but it's not necessary. Harry's said more than once that your magic works how you think it should...if you think must have faith, think you must have a shrunken head to do X, think must have cock's blood and St. John's Wort for Y, then you need it. Those are all simply trappings of your thaumaturgy. There's nothing that voodoo does that you can't do with Thaumaturgy.

There's a good deal of wiggle room in there, especially since faith is so intimately entwined with the Voodoo magics.

[dragoonbuster]

There's a good deal of wiggle room in there, especially since faith is so intimately entwined with the Voodoo magics.

I'll refer to both YS pg 249 and Harry's explanations (If I had books/pg numbers I'd list them) where it is clear that you can mix faith with magic without intrinsically changing the nature of the magic. If your faith wavers, and you've entwined your faith and magic together, then your magic won't work. That's all easily handled with compels.

Like I said, you could work in custom or standard True Faith powers if you want, but there's nothing in the Dresdenverse magical canon that says for whatever reason Voodoo is the exception to thaumaturgic themes and requires extra powers.

Unless my knowledge of Voodoo is lacking some wide gap and there's some integral mechanical part to it that can't be modeled by Thaumaturgy?

[PirateJack]

I'll refer to both YS pg 249 and Harry's explanations (If I had books/pg numbers I'd list them) where it is clear that you can mix faith with magic without intrinsically changing the nature of the magic. If your faith wavers, and you've entwined your faith and magic together, then your magic won't work. That's all easily handled with compels.

Like I said, you could work in custom or standard True Faith powers if you want, but there's nothing in the Dresdenverse magical canon that says for whatever reason Voodoo is the exception to thaumaturgic themes and requires extra powers.

Unless my knowledge of Voodoo is lacking some wide gap and there's some integral mechanical part to it that can't be modeled by Thaumaturgy?

I'm not saying there's a mechanical reason for it. I'm saying that Voodoo practitioners tend to be deeply entwined with their religion, to the point where a good proportion of them are priests of their respective sect. It makes sense for them to have True Faith powers as a natural consequence of that.

[TheEnoch]

See this was my thought as well was intigrating Faith powers however my issue is Faith seems to trump a small chunk of supernatural capabilities so would this seem fair? Feels a little ott in the scheme of things. Was tempted to write up Voodoo as a sponsored magic deal or its own self contained type. Just makes my scratch my chin. Maybe create a basic guide since again Loas are sort of your power source/decider of how your Voodoo works. I mean you deal with any dark Loa you get all the sheer nasty lawbreaking powers while Good Loa just give you nice benefits. My main point is where would Voodoo fall as well within the White Council spectrum. Would they actively police it given the person only retains power while their faith in a Loa remains solid.

@Claw thanks for your thoughts. I am still working on the first one more so as I like it as an idea since it doesn't play to a regular magic concept. Starting to work in a Thaumaturge sub-type for it.

[Theclawmasheen]

I'm not sure if you have the Paranet Papers, but the Spellcasting Addendum there actually explicitly outlines how to bestow powers on others through thaumaturgy. Its quite elaborate and costly though.

[Amelia Crane]

For voodoo I don't see any need for anything more than a magical practitioner.  Harry is always going on about how if you do magic then you have to believe that the magic will happen.  And he goes on about his own faith in magic.  It seems like all magic in the Dresdenverse is faith magic, just with different faiths.  Not to mention that Conviction is both the faith and magical power skill.  So give your hougan or mambo a voodoo related high concept and call out your connection to the Loa (in the same or another aspect) and call it a day.  You can add faith powers in, but that really is not necessary.

[Haru]

1) Simple: Just use magic as is. Another character has pyromancy? Ok, it's not inherent magic, it's bestowed on him by the wizard in question. Use normal rules and use the way his magic works as a justification to let other characters have magic.
For the character himself, same deal: Use the magic rules as they are. If you take refinement, don't describe it as learning to be better, describe it as getting a power back you gave out and it got stronger.

2) Voodoo is just another way to manifest your magic. Standard magic rules apply and should work nicely. Most of the things that make voodoo voodoo are cosmetic when it comes to how to represent it in the game. Instead of a ritual circle you could make a voodoo doll, but the shifts and all that remain the same.
If you want to play up the faith part, just add some faith powers, maybe even make the magic sponsored, not inherent. I've had an NPC like that in one of my games and he worked quite well like that. No real voodoo with him, though.