Author Topic: Etymology of Angel Names in DF  (Read 40280 times)

Offline megarows

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Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« on: June 28, 2015, 07:55:00 AM »
Introduction

This is an attempt to list information about the origin and meaning of the names of the angel-type characters in DF.  (more...)
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1. Named Archangels, with Grace
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2. Unnamed Archangels, Fallen
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3. Named Angels, with Grace
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4. Named Angels, Fallen (Major/Recurring)
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5. Unnamed Angels, Fallen (Major/Recurring)
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6. Named Angels, Fallen (Minor)
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« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 08:47:46 AM by megarows »

Offline Warden John Marcone

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 08:58:25 AM »
Lucifer's angel name is Samael.  Lucifer means "Morningstar" if I'm recalling right, its a nickname.
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Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2015, 03:12:22 PM »
Well, you can fill in Namshiel's combat form. Spiky, skeletal, bony protrusions.

Offline peregrine

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2015, 03:27:30 PM »
Satan=Samael is a non standard reading, though so is the Dresden Files.

Also, An+Uriel is missing the D there, and Duriel is Hebrew for "God is my home" or "I live in Heaven" or something similar.

Offline Quantus

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2015, 05:38:28 PM »
Lucifer's angel name is Samael.  Lucifer means "Morningstar" if I'm recalling right, its a nickname.

Samael was an Archangel of Death, one of 7 in Rabbinic Judaism.  It translates to Venom/Poison of God. He's a Tempter and sometimes identified with the Serpent in the Garden, but never as Luficer directly that I can find. 
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Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2015, 07:04:00 PM »
As far as Saluriel goes considering the snake theme, it's probably a reference to Dr Who's Silurian race of reptile people.
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Offline Dina

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2015, 07:55:49 PM »
Silurian is not only a DW thing. It's a geological age. Also, siluriformes is the order of the catfishes (order as a taxon). But I don't think Saluriel is a reference to that.
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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2015, 11:59:19 PM »
At some point lucifer is called 'the darkest shadow' but I haven't a clue where that was book wise atm. Well, the devil or whatever, I know it was referring to him specifically is my point.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 02:01:30 AM »
At some point lucifer is called 'the darkest shadow' but I haven't a clue where that was book wise atm. Well, the devil or whatever, I know it was referring to him specifically is my point.
I don't recall that.  I remember him being mentioned only twice.  The first in FM by Chauncy, who called him "the Dark Prince", and then in SmF, when Harry calls him "the Prince of fucking Darkness".  I just did a quick text search of the 15 books + SJ, and there were no results for "darkest shadow".  It might have been in one of the short stories not included in SJ.

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2015, 02:04:30 AM »
I don't recall that.  I remember him being mentioned only twice.  The first in FM by Chauncy, who called him "the Dark Prince", and then in SmF, when Harry calls him "the Prince of fucking Darkness".  I just did a quick text search of the 15 books + SJ, and there were no results for "darkest shadow".  It might have been in one of the short stories not included in SJ.
i'll look, might not find it for a few days... It's in a side convo somewhere, like with luccio in smf, it exists though cause it struck me sideways after hhwb was called hunter OF shadows in BR.

Do you mean to say you skimmed 15 plus books on my account  ??? Sorry.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 02:07:32 AM by wizard nelson »

Offline Eldest Gruff

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2015, 02:09:07 AM »
I don't recall that.  I remember him being mentioned only twice.  The first in FM by Chauncy, who called him "the Dark Prince", and then in SmF, when Harry calls him "the Prince of fucking Darkness".  I just did a quick text search of the 15 books + SJ, and there were no results for "darkest shadow".  It might have been in one of the short stories not included in SJ.

And the offhanded mention in SG about the last time an archangel Falling there were 'extended consequences'.
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2015, 02:48:35 AM »
If you expand source roots, we can possibly find some more.

Salur/Alur from Malay1, which means "flow/move like liquid" (vaguely snake-like). 

Ima from Hungarian2 gets you "Prayer", as in praying mantis form for Imariel.

Akar from Malay3 gets you "plant root".  Akariel is described as dark, big, and furry, but that's it.  There's a possibility that its actually a plant-like form, and the "fur" is actually a lot of root hairs all across the body.  Seems like a stretch, but I haven't seen anything else.

Nam from Vietnamese4 means "man".  Thorned Namshiel is said to look like a human skeleton with bone spurs at its joints.  It could be a proto-man form.

Urumviel is the only name+description we have.  Ur, Uru, Urum, Rum, and Um don't seem to have any roots similar to the description of leathery plates on the spine.  The first thing I think of is a stegosaurus, with the Greek usage of saurus meaning lizard-like.  Borrow the -uru- from saurus... maybe...

Offline peregrine

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2015, 03:57:06 AM »
I think when someone is trying to summon HWWB, they call him something like "darkest shadow."

Also, in Small Favor, when Eldest Gruff is chatting with Harry after killing Magog, he refers to the Denarians as "Servants of the darkest shadow."

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2015, 05:00:03 AM »
I think when someone is trying to summon HWWB, they call him something like "darkest shadow."

Also, in Small Favor, when Eldest Gruff is chatting with Harry after killing Magog, he refers to the Denarians as "Servants of the darkest shadow."
I just checked.  Gruff actually does say it in SmF.  My text search is failing to find that string. “Hast thou asked why the wicked Queen of Winter would wish thee to prevent Marcone from being taken by those servants of the darkest shadow? Why she who embodies destruction and death would wish to protect and preserve the Archive?” - Butcher, Jim (2009-03-03). Small Favor: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 374). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.

Now we just have to question whether he's referring to Lucifer, or referring to Nicodemus controlling the other Denarians and having them do his dirty work.  One's the master of shadows, and the other is the Prince of Darkness. 

As for the summoning of Behind, here's what Marge says:  “While here we wait, O hunter of the shadows! We who yearn for your shadow to fall upon our enemy! We who cry out in need for thy strength, O Lord of Slowest Terror! May your right arm come to us! Send unto us your captain of destruction! Mastercraftsman of death! Let now our need become the traveler’s road, the vessel for He Who Walks Behind!” - Butcher, Jim (2010-03-03). Blood Rites: Book six of The Dresden Files (p. 346). Roc. Kindle Edition.

...

But this text search thing is driving me nuts.  I can even search "servants of the darkest", and it'll find it, and "shadow?".  But if I search "darkest shadow", "darkest s", or even "t shadow", it comes back with 0 results.

Now I'm questioning all of the searches I've done. 

Offline Tami Seven

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Re: Etymology of Angel Names in DF
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2015, 05:05:11 AM »
I just checked.  Gruff actually does say it in SmF.  My text search is failing to find that string. “Hast thou asked why the wicked Queen of Winter would wish thee to prevent Marcone from being taken by those servants of the darkest shadow? Why she who embodies destruction and death would wish to protect and preserve the Archive?” - Butcher, Jim (2009-03-03). Small Favor: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 374). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.

Now we just have to question whether he's referring to Lucifer, or referring to Nicodemus controlling the other Denarians and having them do his dirty work.  One's the master of shadows, and the other is the Prince of Darkness. 

As for the summoning of Behind, here's what Marge says:  “While here we wait, O hunter of the shadows! We who yearn for your shadow to fall upon our enemy! We who cry out in need for thy strength, O Lord of Slowest Terror! May your right arm come to us! Send unto us your captain of destruction! Mastercraftsman of death! Let now our need become the traveler’s road, the vessel for He Who Walks Behind!” - Butcher, Jim (2010-03-03). Blood Rites: Book six of The Dresden Files (p. 346). Roc. Kindle Edition.

...

But this text search thing is driving me nuts.  I can even search "servants of the darkest", and it'll find it, and "shadow?".  But if I search "darkest shadow", "darkest s", or even "t shadow", it comes back with 0 results.

Now I'm questioning all of the searches I've done.

I'll never understand why they who control this forum won't open it up to Google searches. :shrug:

Anyway, I really doubt that Nic and the Denarians are working for the Outsiders.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 05:32:42 AM by Tami Seven »
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