He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]

[knnn]

Obviously this is not a discrepancy, but rather a cluebat that Harry has (yet) unknowingly switched into a MM universe.   

[Quantus]

'With it' in the abstract sense certainly. But not 'with it' in actuality. For two reasons, A) a prince can be born destined to be a King but die young and never reach that potential and B) because she wasn't born with a destiny per that description on her part...she was born with it ALL, her mother emptied like a cup and flowed it all into her as she was being pushed out. So while I understand the interpretation, within your own supporting passage is the same girl saying she was born with it all wholesale...not just a destiny but an actuality.

True Enough, but that still wouldnt be a contradiction, or a Lie (in the Fae sense at least).  It's just that the two sentences werent as connected as they appeared on first read. The first was an explanation of the "Gig" in response to that question, then she was answering his question about her Mother, explaining that she'd died, and that at that same moment all of Mother flowed into her along with the rest of the archive.  But the Cause and Effect of that is all left up to implication and assumption. 

Well if her eyes turning 'wistful and distant' are any indicator she was perfectly capable of feeling at least sadness and probably no small degree of regret for what reads like a child who knows full well that she is the reason her mother died and essentially that she killed her by absorbing the Archive away from her mother at birth. As opposed to, as we find out later, a girl who knows her mother killed herself rather than be Ivy's mother...who isn't in a persistent vegetative state but gone entirely and who didn't die an essentially noble death, letting all that she was flow into her daughter so that she might have life but a girl who saddled her unborn (or barely born) child with this burden.

Aha, but couldnt that wistfulness when saying "She's free of it" simply indicate a surviving echo of her mother's emotional state and Final Decision?  Being most likely her First and likely most Powerful memory it would have to have shaped her on a pretty fundamental level, precisely as the Council fears?  In the right light it looks like foreshadowing. 

The tones are off in the two conversations (especially Ivy's) to fit the 'facts' as we know them per Luccio into the interpretation of the scene with Harry and Ivy, (without a level of hurdling that while I don't fault you if you'd rather see it that way to try and reconcile the scenes, I can't), when the most likely and obvious answer is Jim changed his mind and now we're stuck with a bit of a discrepancy.

Oh, make no mistake, I am engaging this exercise specifically to find a logical Watsonian explanation for the discrepancy, because I prefer a smooth continuity for my own peace of mind.  In no way am I trying to say that this interpretation is actually what JB intended when he wrote DM, just that an logical explanation that jives with what we know now is indeed possible.    If I could find an in-world reason for Molly's age to change (that doesnt involve Time Travel or mirror world theories because shoot me ) or the Bianca Assistant Name Change, I would. 

Hell, Im the guy tried to say the differences between James Marster's narration and John Glover was due to how a difference in Harry sounded while an immaterial Ghost. 

[Eldest Gruff]

Hell, Im the guy tried to say the differences between James Marster's narration and John Glover was due to how a difference in Harry sounded while an immaterial Ghost.

Now I KNOW you have too much time on your hands.

[Quantus]

Now I KNOW you have too much time on your hands.

There was doubt?   

[knnn]

Now I KNOW you have too much time on your hands.

Any true believer in the Church of Jim Butcher knows that the Holy Texts can not possibly have inconsistencies in them, and that that the only reason we seem to find such is because we do not fully eff His ineffable will.   

We thank brother Quantus for his extreme diligence in his ceaseless drive to enlighten the rest of us unwashed masses.  Truly he is of the few blessed chosen.   

There is no god but Jim Butcher and Priscellie is his prophet.

[Eldest Gruff]

Any true believer in the Church of Jim Butcher knows that the Holy Texts can not possibly have inconsistencies in them, and that that the only reason we seem to find such is because we do not fully eff His ineffable will.   

We thank brother Quantus for his extreme diligence in his ceaseless drive to enlighten the rest of us unwashed masses.  Truly he is of the few blessed chosen.   

There is no god but Jim Butcher and Priscellie is his prophet.

5-10) Jim is humanly flawed.

Where is your God now? 

[Quantus]

Any true believer in the Church of Jim Butcher knows that the Holy Texts can not possibly have inconsistencies in them, and that that the only reason we seem to find such is because we do not fully eff His ineffable will.   

We thank brother Quantus for his extreme diligence in his ceaseless drive to enlighten the rest of us unwashed masses.  Truly he is of the few blessed chosen.   

There is no god but Jim Butcher and Priscellie is his prophet.

hahah, nice 

Where is your God now? 

In Glorious Paradox. 

I read a bit in a Brandon Sanderson novel recently where a living God didnt believe in himself or the system, and commented on the dogmatic paradox of Him trying and failing to corrupt his own High Priest.  It was pretty awesome. 

[namkcas]

That's not really an inconsistency.  Faeries are pretty fast in general, and Lea had Maggie Sr.'s NN notes.  Lea has the stamina to not worry much about whatever NN environment she's going into next, so no slowing down there.  Not to mention whatever option Odin came up with post-Chichen Itza is probably available to her in a pinch.  Shadowing Harry shouldn't be all that difficult for Lea.  Basically, "close" is relative to the ability to travel quickly.

1.  Showing up in 5 minutes no matter WHERE he was in the NN takes more than knowing the ways.  (GP)

2.  She had to bargain with Odin to get the insta-gate (Changes).

3.  All the beings chasing Harry from AT could not catch Harry and Team (PG).

So we have to reconcile all the places that Harry went in GP and say they are very near her garden in the NN - which makes no sense as Agatha Hagglethorn lived in her own pocket dimension.

[Second Aristh]

1.  Showing up in 5 minutes no matter WHERE he was in the NN takes more than knowing the ways.  (GP)

2.  She had to bargain with Odin to get the insta-gate (Changes).

3.  All the beings chasing Harry from AT could not catch Harry and Team (PG).

So we have to reconcile all the places that Harry went in GP and say they are very near her garden in the NN - which makes no sense as Agatha Hagglethorn lived in her own pocket dimension.

Says who?  I can't see Lea being any slower than Thomas, and he can go fast enough that you wouldn't see him take down someone as per "It's My Birthday, Too".  Plus in Changes, she was keeping up with all the doggies as herself with absolutely no trouble. Add to that that Chicago is a major nexus of Ways, so odds are that wherever Lea was would probably have a quick path to get to Chicago anyway. 

She bargained, but there's no proof that she had to bargain to get the gate going.  It's just as plausible that she wanted to save her strength for fighting.  Even if she was unable to do it alone, Lea could have always bargained back then to get another gate if the need arose.

The faeries running back to Arctis Tor had to fight Maeve's time dilation, and they lacked Maggie Sr.'s notes full of shortcuts.  It's not comparable.

So, still not an inconsistency.

[namkcas]

Lea can be faster than Thomas...  It took longer than 5 minutes to get to CI from Chicago even at a run once they got to the jungle in Mexico and that doesn't count the rest of the trip.

[Phariah]

1.  Showing up in 5 minutes no matter WHERE he was in the NN takes more than knowing the ways.  (GP)

2.  She had to bargain with Odin to get the insta-gate (Changes).

3.  All the beings chasing Harry from AT could not catch Harry and Team (PG).

So we have to reconcile all the places that Harry went in GP and say they are very near her garden in the NN - which makes no sense as Agatha Hagglethorn lived in her own pocket dimension.

the thing is Lea has been watching over Harry. she pops out to save him at Ruel's apt, she pops out to save him at the supermarket, she pops out in the cemetery to save him. places close in the real world could have distances of being on opposite ends of the NN yet she is always there. she has told him that. he even puts it together when she tells him an he thinks of the time w/ Agatha. so I definitely think this leads to her knowing shortcuts as well as insta travel similar to Odin's.

the armies coming to AT were fighting through time dilation. something which we know Erl does not work with as he tells us in CD. he was the one leading the charge. so Harry was able to maintain a lead for awhile till they reached the gate.

yes it took longer because Harry was leading the way through the NN to get to CI. he never asked Lea for help or guidance.

[namkcas]

So, you are saying that Lea AT ALL TIMES was watching Harry.  She was NEVER EVER doing anything else. 

[Quantus]

the thing is Lea has been watching over Harry. she pops out to save him at Ruel's apt, she pops out to save him at the supermarket, she pops out in the cemetery to save him. places close in the real world could have distances of being on opposite ends of the NN yet she is always there. she has told him that. he even puts it together when she tells him an he thinks of the time w/ Agatha. so I definitely think this leads to her knowing shortcuts as well as insta travel similar to Odin's.

the armies coming to AT were fighting through time dilation. something which we know Erl does not work with as he tells us in CD. he was the one leading the charge. so Harry was able to maintain a lead for awhile till they reached the gate.

yes it took longer because Harry was leading the way through the NN to get to CI. he never asked Lea for help or guidance.

I doubt she can do the same point-to-point Gate that Odin did, simply because she had to bargain "aggressively" to get him to do it, and it would have had far less value if she could do it herself.  Other than that I fully expect they can travel far far faster than Harry or even his mother could ever hope to, simply because it's an innate part of them like all their other magic, and the travel in particular is something even the Little Folk get.  Granted it would have likely been much harder on Lea if Harry hadnt settled in suhc a massive nexus of Ways.

So, you are saying that Lea AT ALL TIMES was watching Harry.  She was NEVER EVER doing anything else.

If she considered it to be an implied duty as Godmother then absolutely.  Or more accurately, she /kept a watch on him/.  It wouldnt have to be a 24/7 personal duty, so long as she was confident of her response time should something occur. 

But we do knwo that she couldnt shadow him at all times and in all places.  She couldnt approach while HWWB was after him, for example.  Presumably she could not follow him to Demonreach's NN side, or Erl's Court, likely couldnt track him in Edinburough, and similarly fortified places.  But between her own magic capabilities, and the staff she can presumably leverage as the #2 in all of Winter, I expect she could manage a passive watch easily enough. 

[Mr. Death]

Per the quote I posted, that's not what she said.  It is, I admit, the most common and arguably the most logical interpretation, however.

Per the quote you posted, that's exactly what she said.

"My mother passed it on to me," she replied. "As I was born, just as she received it when she was born."

She's clearly saying this is how the Archive works.

Per the quote I posted, that's not explicitly/literally what she said.  It is, I admit, the most common and arguably the most logical interpretation, however.  It all hinges on whether she was interpreting the question of her "gig" as Archive being the Fate/Duty of it, or the actual  "Comforted" is a pretty big stretch.  That implies positive emotions, or really any emotions at all, which were not evident in that scene.  The closest she gets is referring to her mother as "Free of It".  Otherwise she jsut tells Harry that she has no need to be Sorry for her mother dying because she knows

Yes, that is what she said. She says that she got the Archive the same way her Mother did, in a way that is clearly meant to say, "This is how it works." She says she doesn't even understand why Dresden would be sorry, because her mother lives on in her head. That's the opposite of what you'd expect if the mother living in her head hated her so much and was so disgusted that she killed herself to spite her.

She's not saying, "I got it from birth, which put my mother in a vegetative state, just like my mother did to her mother. Oh, and we're the only ones it's happened to, every other Archive worked in a completely different way." She's clearly intending that this is just how the thing works.

Ivy's being very clear in what she's saying and intending. She has no reason to make things up here, and if she had anything to hide, she could hide just as easily and a heck of a lot more simply by simply not saying anything. Harry would expect a supernatural thing like the Archive to clam up, if she just said, "I'd rather not say," he'd have understood.

[Quantus]

...

I give up.  It was just a means to help even out people's head-cannon anyway