I either need help or something's wrong with FATE/DFRPG

[Maxwellington]

So I've been playing a DFRPG game online for a while, off and on for about 4-6 months. First starting out, it seemed like an awesome concept; free-form character creation, no real limits on classes, etc.

However, when playing the system...that's when I find things to be frustrating. I come from a 13+year background in DnD; mostly 3.x and its derivatives. It's what i'm most used to. There are fine concepts in FATE/DFRPG that I kinda wish that DnD could adopt; the consequence system, for instance (being able to take penalties in exchange for still being alive would've saved many of my characters).

But...Well, it seems that players need to be reactive when they should be proactive and vice versa. For instance, suppose I'm taking cover behind a concrete slab, beyond which are 5 goons with AK-47s trying to gun me down. If the GM is playing it correctly, and I'm understanding the system correctly, I can only "tag" the cover against one of those goons. Or, if I shot a goon, and blew out one of their knees, only one of my allies can use the goon's "Broken Knee" aspect for bonuses. Now, I suppose this does make the game a bit more tactical and challenging, but sort of in the same way that tying a rubber band to your Xbox's control stick and playing Skyrim makes the game more challenging; there's a sense that it doesn't need to be that hard.

In an actual tactical situation, you should be able to use cover against all 5 goons; a goon with a broken knee should not be as maneuverable against anyone, not just the person who says "Hey, his knee's gone!" To take it to the logical conclusion, if you chop a man's arm off (and he doesn't die), each character has to, essentially, notice that the arm's missing/gone to actually gain any sort of tactical advantage of having a one-armed man. And that act of noticing can only be used by one person.

For some reason, this just doesn't make any sense. Am I interpreting things wrong? Or is this artificial difficulty added in for some semblance of balance?

[Sanctaphrax]

For some reason, this just doesn't make any sense. Am I interpreting things wrong? Or is this artificial difficulty added in for some semblance of balance?

Neither. You're not wrong, and it's not really there for balance reasons.

The key thing to remember is that Fate is an abstract system. The connection between what's happening mechanically and what's happening narratively is flexible.

So within the story...that broken knee actually does help everyone, and that cover actually does help against every attack. But those benefits only get expressed mechanically once unless you spend Fate Points. Which you are expected to do pretty often.

Similarly, you as a player get to choose whether to take consequences. But that choice usually doesn't reflect anything in the game world. Your character probably isn't choosing to let their knee get broken so they can keep fighting. It just so happens that they get their knee broken, but are still able to fight.

This approach has a number of benefits, but it's not to everyone's taste. It's totally reasonable for you to be bothered by it. If the rest of your group is similarly bothered you can try and work out some houserules, but I should warn you: altering basic mechanics like this one can have unexpected results.

[zaboron]

But...Well, it seems that players need to be reactive when they should be proactive and vice versa. For instance, suppose I'm taking cover behind a concrete slab, beyond which are 5 goons with AK-47s trying to gun me down. If the GM is playing it correctly, and I'm understanding the system correctly, I can only "tag" the cover against one of those goons.

Well, in Fate, you're the star in an action flick. Nobody wants to see you hide behind a concrete slab for fifteen minutes of the movie. You hide for a short cut, then jump out and drive the story forward. Fate - the system - rewards you accordingly.

Also, in that scene, the 5 goons should count as one mob with one attack, assuming they're faceless.

[Haru]

Also, in that scene, the 5 goons should count as one mob with one attack, assuming they're faceless.

This is the key. If you have 5 small characters representing the goons, it's not going to fit too well. If you have 1 character representing the 5 goons, it sounds weird at first, but it makes sense in context. A character sheet is a mechanical representation of something. For varying values of "something". It can be a single person, it can be multiple persons. It can be an object. It can be part of a person. Whatever it is, it's usually depending on how important it is to the story. The 5 goons? They don't have names, they don't even really have faces. They are merely a speed bump in the story, they can be represented by 1 character sheet.

So when you hit one of them and break his knee, it affects all of them. Not by simultaneous breaking all their knees, that wouldn't make sense, but you crush one knee and 5 morals, making them less eager to fight. If they even get to take a consequence.

Also, regarding having to invoke aspects for them to give a bonus: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RobertHanz/posts/EDqaCxsjobL

[Mr. Death]

There's definitely a way to have the concrete slab act as cover for you against all five goons within the rules.

Roll it as a block instead of a maneuver. Athletics to set up the block against any attack will keep it there til at least your next turn. Maybe Guns, to represent knowledge of line of sight and such. Or Might if you're pushing it into position.

It's true that only one player can get the tag, but in Fate/DFRPG, honestly, against many goons one tag is all you're going to need. Outside of enemies with toughness powers and boss level guys, I've rarely had an antagonist survive more than a round or two once they've been wounded. That kind of thing stacks up fast in Fate. Hell, most goons don't even get that consequence in the first place -- the first solid hit will just take them out.

[BigMrE]

Also, with GM fiat, your gm could say you have cover from the goons, and that they're firing but you're in no danger -- this round.  Then the move around to get line of fire on you...all in narrative, without any mechanics involved.

[Mr. Death]

Or they keep you pinned with fire so that you can't leave cover for a couple rounds.

[Taran]

You can turn aspects into mechanics if you want.  You could 'invoke for effect' to say the cover provides anyone behind it with a 3 shift block.  The block lasts until the aspect is removed - or until the block is overcome depending on the nature of the cover.

A GM could rule that 'shadowy darkness' provides a block 'x' against all perception rolls.

It doesn't happen all the time but if your group likes numbers, then this is totally part of the game.