NEW GM!! Help me make a player happy!

[zakmo86]

OK. So I'm using the Library from the DFRPG Wiki someone posted there (great idea!! And thank you!). The players split up to explore different topics of interest to their characters while exploring. One player who is new to the game and system wants to have a permanent stat increase or some sort of bonus going forward. I explained to him that I thought Fate worked differently than other games like D&D where finding a book doesn't mean you get to increase your stats (for example: finding a book on etiquette might give you a permanent +1 to your Diplomacy skill if you spent time reading it in D&D). I explained it might allow him to change an Aspect, add new powers/stunts if he spent Refresh or justify some narrative part of the story going forward, just not a straight-up, free +1 improvement to Lore or Scholarship. I said he could even "bank" this experience and at a later time, declare that moment the research he did revealed the solution. The player seems to feel robbed of his reward for role playing and succeeding with a high roll for research.

Was I right or wrong? I've been very much willing to work with him to come up with something to make him happy without giving him "free" character improvements/bonuses.

Thank you!! The game is tonight, so I'm in a bit of a rush for an answer.

z

[PirateJack]

You're in the right on this one. FATE doesn't do experience points or improvements in the way he's looking for. At best I'd have allowed him to declare the book as an aspect that he could use to improve relevant rolls.

[Haru]

Yeah, you are in the right. It's hard to wrap your head around if you come from an old school game, but Fate tries to emulate story more than it does reality (or whatever you might want to substitute for reality).

Over all, anything that gives you a benefit will cost you something. Refresh, Fate Points, actions to maneuver. There's no free lunch.

On the other hand, there's usually a lot less screwing people over for not having the right skill/spell/power/whatever. People who are used to that are prone to react in the way you describe. If the new knowledge fits his character, you could let him change an aspect and use that as a justification to go a bit easier on him on some rolls in that area of expertise. It's not a flat out bonus, but he might not have as much trouble as other people there.

Or you could go for a compel on the book, leading to a story surrounding it and the mysteries in it and ending with a milestone that gives him a point of refresh that gives him a power/stunt related to the book.

[zakmo86]

Thanks guys!! This is helpful. If nothing else, at least I know Im not misunderstanding the rules.

[PirateJack]

Just as a shorthand for you, if the player wants to use something like a book as a way to mechanically improve his character, it should be as a declaration. In this example the player would roll Scholarship (or Lore) against a set difficulty of your choosing. A success would get him a Book of Etiquette aspect he could use to improve some rolls (Rapport, possibly Stealth in the right setting, Deceit). If he failed, well, the lessons didn't stick too well or the character was too clumsy to keep his dinner manners straight.

[Lawgiver]

You're in the right on this one. FATE doesn't do experience points or improvements in the way he's looking for. At best I'd have allowed him to declare the book as an aspect that he could use to improve relevant rolls.

Very much this.

I've run into similar problems with my regular game group.

We're all long-time gamers (newest is a 20-year + D&D veteran).

Getting our heads around a skill-based system and away from D&D-style stat-based play isn't always easy.

The OP should stand his ground.

[g33k]

I think maybe you CAN make him happy (give him what he wants) and still stay within the Fate rules...  It looks like your player is looking for a faster (D&D-like) XP/bonus/bennie cycle.  The idea that bonuses -- AND PENALTIES! -- are more tied to the narrative structure (i.e. "last for a scene" whether that scene lasts for less than a minute, or multiple hours...) is pretty un-intuitive from a D&Desque POV.  That's the key.  Point out the sometimes-slower/sometimes-faster bonus/penalty cycle, and how the book is quite explicit on Milestones/Refresh being *THE* means to the sort of permanent +X bonus that he's looking for.

So, he wants a bonus from the book?  Here's how to do it... by the DFRPG rulebook...

Quoth Haru:
   " ... you could go for a compel on the book, leading to a story surrounding it and the mysteries in it and ending with a milestone that gives him a point of refresh that gives him a power/stunt related to the book."

En route to a spendable point of refresh, maybe give him an Aspect (or maybe converting one of his less-used ones?), related to The Book.  He has read the thing and is spending his time wrestling with some of the concepts, consulting his notes, cross-referencing, etc...
   Aspect:  "Doin' things by The Book... if only I could figure it out!"
He can spend a FP's to say that The Book has given him a relevant insight, or the GM could Compel on it; it can become (if desired) the route to a Refresh (or the equivalent, e.g. a Stunt/Power/etc).

Eventually, as Haru says, he can spend a point of Refresh on something he got from the Book, but in the meantime he still gets Aspect-benefits from it!

[zakmo86]

Thanks, everyone. He seems to have accepted my response for now. He's a really good player and I hated for him to feel robbed of his success in the Library. I'm going going to use these ideas and see what he says. Thanks again.

[Shaft]

Just to put skill levels in perspective, getting a +1 in a skill reflects months or years of study.

This is a very rough guideline for education level (using Scholaship):

Average (+1): High School graduate, "Blue Collar" Trade School
Fair (+2): College Graduate, Bachelor's Degree
Good (+3): Advanced/Honor's Bachelor's Degree, Graduate Degree (Master's or PhD)
Great (+4): PhD and/or Multiple degrees, post graduate degree
Superb (+5): Leading expert in a field. 

One reading of a book will not bump you to the next level.  In D&D 3.5/Pathfinder terms, a +1 on a skill that uses a D20 for the check is probably equal to 3 to 5 points.

[zakmo86]

Just to put skill levels in perspective, getting a +1 in a skill reflects months or years of study.

This is a very rough guideline for education level (using Scholaship):

Average (+1): High School graduate, "Blue Collar" Trade School
Fair (+2): College Graduate, Bachelor's Degree
Good (+3): Advanced/Honor's Bachelor's Degree, Graduate Degree (Master's or PhD)
Great (+4): PhD and/or Multiple degrees, post graduate degree
Superb (+5): Leading expert in a field. 

One reading of a book will not bump you to the next level.  In D&D 3.5/Pathfinder terms, a +1 on a skill that uses a D20 for the check is probably equal to 3 to 5 points.

Wow. Now I feel super ordinary. I'm only a Fair. ;-)

[Shaft]

Wow. Now I feel super ordinary. I'm only a Fair. ;-)

I have no doubt that you have a few stunts that bump you up in specialty areas.