On Demons and the Fallen

[eiredrake]

I was talking with a friend of mine who is playing a very Constantine-esque character in my DFRPG, Frost and Fire, Earth and Sky.

His highschool, though many mechanations of some nasty people, ended up touted as a sacrifice to a Duke of Hell known as Moloch in order for someone (they never found out what was truly going on) to gain power.

Because the characters were all 'toes in the water' teenagers who barely knew their butts from a hole in the ground, the character in question basically made a pact with another entity from Downbelow known as Pazuzu (whom you might recognize from the Exorcist fame).

In the end Palos Verdes Penninsula High School was pretty much burned to the ground, there were twenty some odd casualties (a lot less than Moloch was promised much to his dismay) and the Kids inadvertently discovered a hidden sect of Outsider 'worshipers' operating inside the local Masonic lodge and trying to take it over.

This could have been averted if say, the Knights of the Cross had showed up or if the Wardens had somebody to spare. But this occurred during the same night as Chicago's big blackout when the necromancers showed up and Harry rode Sue... so they were a little busy.

Now the books have said that the entities in the Blackened Denarii are fallen angels, and that demons are basically just random non-friendly entities in the nevernever.

So what are Moloch and Pazuzu as far as the Dresenverse goes? They're obviously not in a Denarius. Does that mean they aren't members of the Fallen? Or are there other Fallen running around that didn't get imprisoned in coins? Seems like there'd be far more Fallen than just the 30 coins.

Or are the Demons? Given the RW lore about Moloch and Pazuzu it seems they'd be a bit powerful to be like Chauncy.

I realize that this is my game and I can pretty well make it however I want but I'd like to try to be consistent with the books and I thought perhaps I was missing something.

[dragoonbuster]

I was talking with a friend of mine who is playing a very Constantine-esque character in my DFRPG, Frost and Fire, Earth and Sky.

His highschool, though many mechanations of some nasty people, ended up touted as a sacrifice to a Duke of Hell known as Moloch in order for someone (they never found out what was truly going on) to gain power.

Because the characters were all 'toes in the water' teenagers who barely knew their butts from a hole in the ground, the character in question basically made a pact with another entity from Downbelow known as Pazuzu (whom you might recognize from the Exorcist fame).

In the end Palos Verdes Penninsula High School was pretty much burned to the ground, there were twenty some odd casualties (a lot less than Moloch was promised much to his dismay) and the Kids inadvertently discovered a hidden sect of Outsider 'worshipers' operating inside the local Masonic lodge and trying to take it over.

This could have been averted if say, the Knights of the Cross had showed up or if the Wardens had somebody to spare. But this occurred during the same night as Chicago's big blackout when the necromancers showed up and Harry rode Sue... so they were a little busy.

Now the books have said that the entities in the Blackened Denarii are fallen angels, and that demons are basically just random non-friendly entities in the nevernever.

So what are Moloch and Pazuzu as far as the Dresenverse goes? They're obviously not in a Denarius. Does that mean they aren't members of the Fallen? Or are there other Fallen running around that didn't get imprisoned in coins? Seems like there'd be far more Fallen than just the 30 coins.

Or are the Demons? Given the RW lore about Moloch and Pazuzu it seems they'd be a bit powerful to be like Chauncy.

I realize that this is my game and I can pretty well make it however I want but I'd like to try to be consistent with the books and I thought perhaps I was missing something.

You could go either way. Not all of the Fallen are in the Coins, or it's implied to be that way. Depends on if you want the Church involved in play or not, really. If you want Knights of the Cross showing up and whatnot, make them un-bound Fallen who've found a way to interfere in mortal affairs. Or make them Denarians...we don't know the names of all 30, and haven't even seen all 30.

Or, if you don't want the Church and Knights, I'd make them simple, very powerful, demons.

[PirateJack]

There was a Word of Jim a while back that said the 30 Fallen in the Coins were basically those Fallen whom Lucifer thought were too powerful to keep around, so they got stuck into the Coins and essentially banished from Hell. There's no word on where the other demons are held up in relation to the Nevernever, but Harry does summon a demon working for Downbelow in the first book, so they're not anywhere difficult to get to. Also Lucifer was able to affect the world a bit in Small Favor, which suggests he's not as bound as the Fallen are.

[ravnwing]

There was a Word of Jim a while back that said the 30 Fallen in the Coins were basically those Fallen whom Lucifer thought were too powerful to keep around, so they got stuck into the Coins and essentially banished from Hell. There's no word on where the other demons are held up in relation to the Nevernever, but Harry does summon a demon working for Downbelow in the first book, so they're not anywhere difficult to get to. Also Lucifer was able to affect the world a bit in Small Favor, which suggests he's not as bound as the Fallen are.

Really? I haven't heard of that. If you know where he said it I would love to see the interview

[PirateJack]

It was a post on the forum. Here is the link. Very bottom of the page.