Medical Treatment

[Cadd]

PS: If we're meddling with Recovery, we might want to move some power from the Inhuman level to the Mythic level. Because Recovery is really quite front-loaded. Not sure what the best way to do it is, though.

Maybe do something with the Shrug It Off, It's Nothing and Ha! You Call That Hit? trappings? Would it be too much of a nerf to just bump those up one tier each? So Inhuman can't clear consequence mid-combat, Supernatural can do it once and Mythic can do it twice? A downside is of course that Inhuman becomes much more passive as there's no active choice at all...

[Sanctaphrax]

It wouldn't be a huge nerf, but it also wouldn't do anything to address the problem. The problem isn't that Recovery is too good, it's that most of the goodness is at the Inhuman level and little of it is at the Mythic level.

Maybe we could make it so that Inhuman can't clear milds, Supernatural is unchanged, and Mythic can clear milds endlessly. That sounds really powerful, but taking a -1 penalty to your roll and giving away a tag is actually a pretty high cost to pay for armour 2.

[Cadd]

That's sort of what I was after, to actually remove the mid-combat clearing entirely from Inhuman.
You're probably correct actually that while it looks broken to let Mythic clear endlessly, it's probably not that big a deal. I haven't seen enough play with Mythic anything to really have a feel for it :p

[Taran]

I think Mythic should heal moderate consequences in combat...but maybe that's too powerful.

Inhuman = one mild
Super = two mild
Mythic = 1 mild +1 moderate.

Or maybe you just say,
Inhuman can heal 2 stress worth of consequences  - rounded to the nearest consequence (which is a mild)
Supernatural can heal 4 stress (so 2 mild or 1 moderate)
Mythic can heal 6 stress (3 mild; 1 moderate/1 mild; 1 severe)
per scene.

So, even though the numbers are the same, Mythic has waaay more flexibility.  Those powers get rid of those consequences by the beginning of the next scene anyways.

I've kind of lost track of where we are regarding the thread.  I'm going to have to re-read from a page back.

[Sanctaphrax]

I like that idea. It's an apparently-small change, but taking a temporary severe is much better than taking three temporary milds. It's one tag and supplemental action penalty instead of three.

As for what you missed, I made a proposal that I think has potential.

All consequences heal on their own.

If a consequence hasn't been attended to, it can be tagged once per scene for free.

Tending to a consequence requires a stunt-aided skill roll, Thaumaturgy with a stunt, or an actual healing Power. The GM sets the difficulty based on the available medical equipment, the nature of the consequence, the available time, and their own whims.

If the roll succeeds, rename the consequence slightly and it can't be tagged every scene anymore. If the roll succeeds strongly and there's magic involved, rename the consequence completely and most invokes and Compels become inappropriate.

Going to the hospital reliably gets you a successful roll, though it can take a while. If the GM cares to roll for the hospital, their policy is to take as much extra time as they need to.

Consequences sometimes worsen as the result of a Compel. Some people have Recovery and a HEALS WRONG Aspect that gives them stuff like fused bones.

Inhuman Recovery automatically tends to moderate and mild consequences. Supernatural Recovery automatically tends to non-extreme consequences. Mythic Recovery automatically tends to all consequences.

Wizard's Constitution doesn't affect healing, just ageing.

Actual healing Powers can remove consequences outright, but a limited number of times per session. So it's really a lot like buying extra consequences with stunts, except not for yourself.

[Theogony_IX]

Sanctaphrax's suggestion seems pretty solid as well.

Inhuman Recovery automatically tends to moderate and mild consequences. Supernatural Recovery automatically tends to non-extreme consequences. Mythic Recovery automatically tends to all consequences.

But I want to point out that this part provides an additional advantage to recovery powers that will need to be watched in testing the idea.  It may make having a recovery power an auto-choice if the group doesn't have a doctor/healer simply if the disadvantage of the new consequence rules turns out be feel especially intense however appropriate.

[Taran]

All consequences heal on their own.

If a consequence hasn't been attended to, it can be tagged once per scene for free.

Tending to a consequence requires a stunt-aided skill roll, Thaumaturgy with a stunt, or an actual healing Power. The GM sets the difficulty based on the available medical equipment, the nature of the consequence, the available time, and their own whims.

If the roll succeeds, rename the consequence slightly and it can't be tagged every scene anymore. If the roll succeeds strongly and there's magic involved, rename the consequence completely and most invokes and Compels become inappropriate.

Going to the hospital reliably gets you a successful roll, though it can take a while. If the GM cares to roll for the hospital, their policy is to take as much extra time as they need to.

This seems all good.  Getting a free tag every scene on a consequence is well worth going to the hospital to fix.  Can you try to hide the wound if you can't tend it?  would that prevent the free tag?

Consequences sometimes worsen as the result of a Compel. Some people have Recovery and a HEALS WRONG Aspect that gives them stuff like fused bones.

This seems weird.  I'm not sure how to adjudicate that.  Does it become a permanent aspect change?  Is it any worse than having a regular consequence?  Does medical help fix it?  If you have recovery, but don't set your bones, can they still heal wrong?  If it's permanent, can it still be tagged for free until fixed?

Inhuman Recovery automatically tends to moderate and mild consequences. Supernatural Recovery automatically tends to non-extreme consequences. Mythic Recovery automatically tends to all consequences.

I like recovery as-is.  Maybe with the change I suggested, it'd give Mythic a bit more Oomph.  As I mentioned above, you could have a situation where something heals wrong, even if it heals quick.  On the other hand, it already does what you're suggesting (except for extreme), so it's not a big change.

Wizard's Constitution doesn't affect healing, just ageing.

I'm fine with this.

Actual healing Powers can remove consequences outright, but a limited number of times per session. So it's really a lot like buying extra consequences with stunts, except not for yourself.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Could you give an example?

[Sanctaphrax]

But I want to point out that this part provides an additional advantage to recovery powers that will need to be watched in testing the idea.  It may make having a recovery power an auto-choice if the group doesn't have a doctor/healer simply if the disadvantage of the new consequence rules turns out be feel especially intense however appropriate.

It does make Recovery a little better, but it only affects consequences that are reduced to mild level by your Recovery anyway (except for Mythic Recovery affecting extremes, but extremes are super rare). So it probably won't affect the game too much.

Can you try to hide the wound if you can't tend it?  would that prevent the free tag?

You can definitely hide wounds, but it might not prevent tagging. An opponent can still get an advantage from you being weakened even if they don't know about it, after all.

This seems weird.  I'm not sure how to adjudicate that.  Does it become a permanent aspect change?  Is it any worse than having a regular consequence?  Does medical help fix it?  If you have recovery, but don't set your bones, can they still heal wrong?  If it's permanent, can it still be tagged for free until fixed?

It's a Compel, so it's open-ended. But I was thinking the default would be something like...

"I'm Compelling the FILTHY HOVEL Aspect of your home. If you accept, your moderate NICKED ARM consequence becomes a severe INFECTED WOUND consequence."

or

"I'm Compelling your HEALS WRONG Aspect. If you accept, your severe BROKEN LEG consequence becomes a moderate FUSED KNEE consequence and heals as though you didn't have Mythic Recovery."

On the other hand, it already does what you're suggesting (except for extreme), so it's not a big change.

That's not quite true. Someone with Inhuman Recovery who takes a moderate consequence in this scene will carry it through next scene. If it's not tended to automatically, it'll be taggable in that next scene.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Could you give an example?

Faith Healing [-2]
You may use Conviction to tend to mental and physical consequences of any severity. Once per session, when you succeed by at least 3 while tending to a mild or moderate consequence, you may erase that consequence completely instead of renaming it completely.
More Healing [-1]. You may erase a consequence an additional time per session. You may take this upgrade multiple times.

Not sure if that writeup is ready for prime time, but it should serve as an example.

[Sanctaphrax]

So, part of the point of this thread was to create a solid foundation for the creation of healing Powers. I'm gonna take a crack at a power based off this and this.

HEALING [-1]
Description: You possess the magical ability to heal others. Perhaps you can help people recover from psychological trauma with your musical genius, or perhaps you can knit flesh and bone back together through sheer faith.
Note: This power uses one skill and applies to one stress track. Choose which skill and which stress track when you take this power. Any combination is permissible as long as the group is not offended by it.
Skills Affected: Pick one.
Effects:
Heal. You may use your chosen skill to treat consequences of your chosen stress track. If you beat the difficulty to treat by 3 or more, you may heal the consequence completely. If you do so, the consequence Aspect is removed. However, the consequence slot doesn't become usable again until the normal recovery time has passed. This power may or may not affect extreme consequences; GMs should handle such issues on a case by case basis.
Widened Healing [-1]. You may use your chosen skill to heal consequences from any stress track.
Powerful Healing [-1]. When you heal a consequence completely with this Power, you may free up the consequence slot so that the healed character may fill it with a new consequence. You may only do this for four shifts of consequences per session, but you may purchase this option multiple times to add four additional shifts per purchase.
Sacrificial Healing [-1]. Instead of rolling to heal a consequence, you may transfer it from someone else to yourself. If you do, your new consequence is automatically treated but is not affected by Recovery Powers. Depending on how this Power is flavoured, transferred consequences may or may not be renamed.

Thoughts?

[Taran]

Suggestions:

Heal. You may use your chosen skill to treat consequences of your chosen stress track. If you beat the difficulty to treat by 3 or more, you may heal the consequence completely. If you do so, the consequence Aspect is removed. However, the consequence slot doesn't become usable again until the normal recovery time has passed. This power may or may not affect extreme consequences; GMs should handle such issues on a case by case basis.

Heal:  succeeding by the exact shift should treat the wound, so that people don't get the free tag every scene and rename the consequence to reflect that it's been tended.

Beating it by 3 shifts removes it, as you said.

Also,
1.  How long does it take?  One exchange?  Can it be done in combat?

2. how often can I do this?  If I fail, can I just keep retrying until I succeed?  If I'm not under any time pressure, can I just stack maneuvers until I succeed?  If everyone is injured can I just do it on everyone?  What kinds of limitations are there?  Can a big failure cause things to mend poorly or would that be a compel?

Widened Healing [-1]. You may use your chosen skill to heal consequences from any stress track.

I think it you should just get to choose one other type of stress track.  So you'd need to buy this power twice if you want to heal all three stress tracks.  That said...how does one magically heal social stress?  So maybe it's irrelevant.

Powerful Healing [-1]. When you heal a consequence completely with this Power, you may free up the consequence slot so that the healed character may fill it with a new consequence. You may only do this for four shifts of consequences per session, but you may purchase this option multiple times to add four additional shifts per purchase.

I don't understand this.  Maybe it's the wording.  4 shifts?  Like 2 minors or a moderate?  Buying the power twice means you could heal up to any combination of consequences as long as their total value don't exceed 8?

[Sanctaphrax]

Heal:  succeeding by the exact shift should treat the wound, so that people don't get the free tag every scene and rename the consequence to reflect that it's been tended.

Yep. I meant that to come across in the Power writeup, but apparently it wasn't clear. I should probably reword it, or write the healing rules in a way that makes it clearer through context.

Also,
1.  How long does it take?  One exchange?  Can it be done in combat?

2. how often can I do this?  If I fail, can I just keep retrying until I succeed?  If I'm not under any time pressure, can I just stack maneuvers until I succeed?  If everyone is injured can I just do it on everyone?  What kinds of limitations are there?  Can a big failure cause things to mend poorly or would that be a compel?

I was thinking it would use the default wound-treatment rules here...whatever those are.

The idea is that it's exactly like normal medical treatment, except you use a different skill and no tools. Plus you get an extra bonus if you succeed with style.

I guess I should post the Healing Power together with the rules it would work under.

I think it you should just get to choose one other type of stress track.  So you'd need to buy this power twice if you want to heal all three stress tracks.  That said...how does one magically heal social stress?  So maybe it's irrelevant.

You have a point. Healing social stress magically is weird. And anyway, I like the way that in DFRPG social combat between mortals and gods is actually more or less fair.

So yeah, in the next draft I'll remove the option to heal social consequences. Some social consequences are mental-esque enough that they probably should be treatable with this, but whatever. Gotta sacrifice something.

I don't understand this.  Maybe it's the wording.  4 shifts?  Like 2 minors or a moderate?  Buying the power twice means you could heal up to any combination of consequences as long as their total value don't exceed 8?

That's the idea. Any suggestions for making it clearer?

[Taran]

That's the idea. Any suggestions for making it clearer?

Not at this exact moment because it's late and my brain is fried.  but...

Would you consider taking these rules for a spin in Enduring the Apocalypse?

Medical treatment won't really come into play since everyone has recovery - so no free tags every scene.  But having recovery heal a number of shifts of consequences instead of 1,2,3 milds.

...you know, I also just used the term "shifts of consequences" so maybe the phrasing of the power is fine.  Maybe just include an example to clarify.

[Sanctaphrax]

Sure, we can give it a try. I'll post a note in the OoC thread to that effect.

[Taran]

I'm just having a discussion about magical healing and had an idea.

Much of the magical healing ideas are based on consequence.  This many shifts of complexity is = to the severity of the consequence <<insert formula>>

What if you made it like this:

Base complexity (or difficulty of check if you're using a power)
Lets you heal a consequence at its normal rate.
Then, you have to add complexity (or shifts of success) to decrease the time it takes to heal.

For a ritual, the quickest you could heal a consequence would be the amount of time it takes to do the ritual. "A scene".

A power might be quicker but you can't get as many shifts from a straight skill roll.

example:
Severe consequence takes 3 weeks to heal

In terms of story time, recovering from a mild
consequence takes about an hour. Recovering
from a moderate consequence takes anywhere
from a day to a week. Recovering from a severe
consequence takes several weeks to a couple of
months.

Base complexity to start the healing process is 6 (since that's the mundane roll for healing and the base complexity listed under biomancy

The main advantage of healing magic in
the game is in providing justification to begin
the recovery process (page 220) without any
other effort. Use the shift value of the consequence
(which you can stack together for
multiple consequences) as the spell complexity.

funny enough, it specifically says biomancy CAN'T reduce healing time.)

Now, in 3 weeks your severe will finally go away (at the end of the scenario)
Add 8 shifts and that severe will go away by the end of the ritual (15 minutes)
Total complexity = 14

Or, if that's too easy, you have to stack the consequences. 
Severe to moderate=6+3(month to a few days)=9
+reducing a moderate to a minor = 4+4(a few days to an hour)=8
+reducing a minor to nothing = 2+2 (an hour to 15minute/one scene)=4
Total complexity to heal a severe in one ritual =21
A power that can be done in combat would have to add another 4 shifts.

If you have a recovery power, use that as your base recovery time.  So it doesn't change the consequence slot...you still have a severe, you're just changing how much time it takes to heal.

It's not perfect but it's Just food for thought.

[Theogony_IX]

funny enough, it specifically says biomancy CAN'T reduce healing time.)

I saw that too, then the book goes and shows the Reiki Healing Spell pages later.  Yeah . . .

Anyway, your math for that heal a Severe completely isn't much different than the math I came up using the Paranet Papers rules for the transformation spells.  It gives a person recovery powers with the house rule developed in this thread to affect higher levels of consequences.  See below:

(click to show/hide)

Heal 1 step faster:
3 shifts for an aspect + Shifts equal to the consequence being healed + Shifts equal to the new consequence level.
Severe as Moderate: 13 shifts.
Moderate as Mild: 9 shifts.

This is a combination of the Reiki healing spell and the new transformation rules from Paranet Papers (see below for more on that).  The math isn't terribly different from what they use in Your Story though.  YS recommends 8 for a Moderate, and 14 for a Severe.


Heal a consequence completely:
3 shifts for an aspect + 3x the consequence being healed.
Heal Severe completely: 21 shifts.
Heal Moderate completely: 15 shifts.
Heal Mild completely: 9 shifts.

The idea here is that you are giving the target of your spell a recovery power.  It's the power that does the healing.  (RAW states that recovery powers only affect mild consequences, but I'm fiddling with that a bit here allowing the removal trapping to stack in order to affect larger consequences.)  3 shifts for an aspect + double the cost of the powers given + the consequence being affected.

A temporary aspect that fills in for the high concept requirement for the power in question. This is a maneuver-equivalent action, and defaults to a complexity of 3 shifts, even on a willing subject. (This means that, yes, if you want the enhancement to go longer than a scene, you also need to pay for extra duration just like with any other maneuver.)

Enough complexity to cover the refresh cost of the power. 1 refresh is equivalent to a fate point, and a fate point is normally worth 2 shifts of effect, so you need 2 shifts of complexity per refresh point.

Enough shifts to inflict a mental or physical consequence on the target of value equal to the previous step. The target can take this voluntarily, which means you don’t need to bring the power yourself, but on an unwilling target, you have to do it just like any other attack spell.

Since you're removing a consequence and not inflicting one, you need to provide the power that would normally come from the consequence yourself.

3 + 2x2(inhuman recovery) + 2(mild) = 9;
3 + 2x4(supernatural recovery) + 4(moderate) = 15;
3 + 2x6(mythic recovery) + 6(severe) = 21.