Are Vamps and Werewolves too overdone?

[Velgron]

Thinking of writing first novel. Basic fantasy setting with elves and all that jazz, but im incorporating werewolves and vampires. Basic plot line is that the main character witnesses his family's slaughter at the hands of vampires and is saved by a werewolf. The child grows up and goes out for revenge however the vamps and wolves have formed an alliance through crime syndicates and so forth which makes things difficult etc... just wondering if this is too overdone or would be too stale.

[Yeratel]

Thinking of writing first novel. Basic fantasy setting with elves and all that jazz, but im incorporating werewolves and vampires. Basic plot line is that the main character witnesses his family's slaughter at the hands of vampires and is saved by a werewolf. The child grows up and goes out for revenge however the vamps and wolves have formed an alliance through crime syndicates and so forth which makes things difficult etc... just wondering if this is too overdone or would be too stale.

Sounds kind of like a spinoff of Underworld, or Underworld: Evolution. Do you have a character that looks like Kate Beckinsale in a leather bodysuit? 

[Velgron]

I wish I had a character as such as beckinsale. I realize that it does sound similar but what I stated was the broad plot line. I plan on now having the vamps and werewolves as enemies per se in this. They also wont stick to the shadows. The actual story will be much more complicated... but then again I just came up with this idea earlier today.

[Cyclone Jack]

IMO, yes. Vamps and werewolves are overdone. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find any sort of twist or new direction to make them interesting again.

Not as overdone as elves though. I have taken to tossing aside any book that introduces "mysterious, beautiful people, tall and graceful, their voices like music, eyes glinting with the knowledge of ages..." and rot such as that.

If I ever write a story involving elve sI'm gonna make them hideous insectoid things, cannibalistic and stinking, who speak in gutteral grunts and clicks.

[LizW65]

IMO
If I ever write a story involving elve sI'm gonna make them hideous insectoid things, cannibalistic and stinking, who speak in gutteral grunts and clicks.

Kinda like Terry Pratchett's elves with the glamour turned off?

[blgarver]

Yeah I agree...vampires and werewolves too overdone.  These days they're being too modernized in the stories that seem to make it into the spotlight.  It's always some scientific thing, a virus or chromozome or something.  Why can't they just be vamps and weres, with no explanation of why they exist?  We fear the unknown right?

Also, you guys talking about the elves sent up a red flag in my mind about my as yet unwritten trilogy that, in my mind, will end up being my magnum opus if I pull it off the way I want.  I wanted a Tolkienesque backdrop, but without the fantasy cliches.  Like elegant and ancient elves.  So, in my story, the Elves were the world's enemy and eventually were wiped out in a collective effort by the other nations, except one; the heir to Elven throne.  For centuries he has been hunted to no avail.  You could compare him to Jason Bourne, I guess, lol.  Anyway, the trilogy is centered around the events of this missing heir to the throne and his half-elf offspring, the son he hid away in order to keep his elvish blood a secret.  He does come back in the stories, and there are many dormant bounty hunters that come after him and his son.

So, elves as the world's ultimate enemy...has it been done before?

[Wolfhowls]

I think vampires are too overdone but werewolves aren't. Not too many people know how to write werewolf stories all that well. I have read a few and the majority of the stories weren't all that great. But your plot idea sounds cool, not something I've read or heard of. Sounds like a good Anti Hero theme which I'm all for.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

IMO, yes. Vamps and werewolves are overdone. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find any sort of twist or new direction to make them interesting again.

I've never been overly fond of werewolves, but there are a lot of directions one can go with vampires that people aren't focusing on at the moment.  I have very little time for the paranormal romance genre, but books like David Wellington's Thirteen Bullets do nice innovative things with bits of traditional vampire lore that have barely been touched in modern vampire fiction, and Peter Watts' Blindsight, justifiably nominated for lots of major awards this year, has among its various peculiar spaceship crew members a vampire with seriously inhuman psychology, so I think the notion is far from mined out.

Not as overdone as elves though. I have taken to tossing aside any book that introduces "mysterious, beautiful people, tall and graceful, their voices like music, eyes glinting with the knowledge of ages..." and rot such as that.
If I ever write a story involving elve sI'm gonna make them hideous insectoid things, cannibalistic and stinking, who speak in gutteral grunts and clicks.

Of course, if you're a hideous cannibalistic insectoid thing who wants the nice tasty humans to get close enough to gobble, some way of appearing mysterious, beautiful, tall and graceful is as good a lure as any.

The thing about most contemporary takes on elves that bores me is that most of them are as you describe, on the surface, and have nothing behind that to back them up.  [ With Ford's The Last Hot Time as an honorable counterexample. ] Tolkien's elves have much more to them than that, and it's easy to miss on a quick reading of Lord of the Rings just how much there is to them - they are basically Miltonian angels dressing way down, and the couple of places where that mask slips [ "All shall love me and despair" ] are to my mind moments that stick.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

So, elves as the world's ultimate enemy...has it been done before?

Don't think so.  John M. Ford's The Last Hot Time has the elves come back - pretty much by every city of any size acquire an Elf Quarter that has suddenly always been there - and become the most dangerous mafia in the world, and the knock-on effects of this shift and the introduction of a small but pervasive amount of magic into the world on the global economy are about the same as that of a limited nuclear war, but that's very much a background-shape thing, what the book's about is on a different scale entirely.

The potential problem with elves as the world's ultimate enemy, IMO, is that it could all too easily come across as the kind of thing that on the surface looks like aristocracy-bashing, and with a bit more thought is very hard not to read as fear of any kind of reward for merit.

[blgarver]

Well, there's a reason they became the world's enemy.  They weren't always that way, but something huge happened that turned the world against them.  I don't want to divulge too much.  I've been developing this story since I was 12...that's 13 years in the making.

[Matrix Refugee (formerly Morraeon)]

Depends on how the story is executed. I can be iffy with weres and vamps, but part of it is personal bias: There used to be this crazy girl on the Recursion of The Matrix Online who roleplayed as a vampire, and she was the most anNOYing about it: used to randomly try and turn people into vampires (especially females, since it seemed she was a bisexual who used RP as an outlet for her sexual drives...), whether they wanted to RP a vamp or not, and that included me/my character. She even lead a faction full of vamps and weres until the thing got to be the laughingstock of the server and the phrase "lesbian vampire" became a catch-phrase for someone who badly RPed a vampire/werewolve/preternatural Exilic program of choice.

[DragonFire]

Well, there's a reason they became the world's enemy.  They weren't always that way, but something huge happened that turned the world against them.  I don't want to divulge too much.  I've been developing this story since I was 12...that's 13 years in the making.

Umm, well yes, I'm doing.

Race ya to publish!!!!

OF course, my synopsis is nothing like yours, so maybe there is room for both of us!!

[Kiriath]

Me, I think they're a little overdone. But I just like various mythologies rather than the same monsters.

Who cares what anyone says. If it's got you dragged in, write it.

Kate Beckinsale, bodysuit. Gahh.

[Cyclone Jack]

I've never been overly fond of werewolves, but there are a lot of directions one can go with vampires that people aren't focusing on at the moment.  I have very little time for the paranormal romance genre, but books like David Wellington's Thirteen Bullets do nice innovative things with bits of traditional vampire lore that have barely been touched in modern vampire fiction, and Peter Watts' Blindsight, justifiably nominated for lots of major awards this year, has among its various peculiar spaceship crew members a vampire with seriously inhuman psychology, so I think the notion is far from mined out.

IMO, 'overdone' isn't the same as 'mined out'. Overdone simply means that too many novels/stories focus on those archetypes. I'd certainly never discourage a writer from tackling them -- in fact, every writer of horror/fantasy should probably do them even if it's just to get it 'out of their system'. If you keep up with magazine (online and paper) sub guidelines, you'll see that many editors are honestly stating that vampire stories are going to be a tough sell because they are deluged with them.

I agree about Blindsight and think he was robbed at the Hugos. As much as I enjoyed Vinge's Rainbow's End, I feel the Watt's novel broke more ground, told a more exciting story, and was basically superior on a literary level.

Of course, if you're a hideous cannibalistic insectoid thing who wants the nice tasty humans to get close enough to gobble, some way of appearing mysterious, beautiful, tall and graceful is as good a lure as any.

True, true. But I was thinking more along the lines of. "Oh, Lord -- it's a bunch of stinkin' elves. Watch out, little one -- they're weak and stupid, but quick. Might lose a finger if you're not careful. Give 'em a wide berth, luv."

The thing about most contemporary takes on elves that bores me is that most of them are as you describe, on the surface, and have nothing behind that to back them up.  [ With Ford's The Last Hot Time as an honorable counterexample. ] Tolkien's elves have much more to them than that, and it's easy to miss on a quick reading of Lord of the Rings just how much there is to them - they are basically Miltonian angels dressing way down, and the couple of places where that mask slips [ "All shall love me and despair" ] are to my mind moments that stick.

Well, literary philosophy-wise I suppose I'm basically a Campbellian. Humancentric to a fault.

[Mickey Finn]

We need more FAE...Seelie and Unseelie Court. To date, the only place I've seen this come up is Jim's work, Matt Wagner's Mage,Delint's Jack the Giant Killer...and my unpublished stuff.

There's so much more to the mythos than bloody elves.