Stating Manannan Mac Lir

[Trum4n1208]

Howdy all,

For our session, I thought it'd be fun to have the Irish god of the sea essentially in retirement/hiding in plain site as a fisherman in New Orleans, and a friend of the party. How would one stat him as a character though? Assets, powers, etc?

Cheers,
Trum4n

[Haru]

A better question would be: Does he need stats at all?

I've got quite a few NPCs that never got more than a few aspects, because I would never roll anything for them to begin with. Look at Lea, for example, in Our World (page 167).

[Sanctaphrax]

I don't know much about him, but going by what it says on Wikipedia...he seems to have a lot of magical gear, so maybe some kind of crafting thaumaturgy would be appropriate. And it says he's affiliated with the veil between worlds, so maybe Worldwalker?

A better question would be: Does he need stats at all?

I've got quite a few NPCs that never got more than a few aspects, because I would never roll anything for them to begin with. Look at Lea, for example, in Our World (page 167).

Aspects are stats. And people like Lea frequently need more stats than just Aspects. For example, it's important to know that Lea has Unseelie Magic and not Soulfire. And if a player tries to trick her, it's important to know how good she is at spotting lies.

That raises an interesting question, though. How strong do you intend this guy to be? Wikipedia's not very specific about power level, but I'd say he probably needs at least 8 Refresh of Powers and Stunts.

[Trum4n1208]

I don't know much about him, but going by what it says on Wikipedia...he seems to have a lot of magical gear, so maybe some kind of crafting thaumaturgy would be appropriate. And it says he's affiliated with the veil between worlds, so maybe Worldwalker?

Aspects are stats. And people like Lea frequently need more stats than just Aspects. For example, it's important to know that Lea has Unseelie Magic and not Soulfire. And if a player tries to trick her, it's important to know how good she is at spotting lies.

That raises an interesting question, though. How strong do you intend this guy to be? Wikipedia's not very specific about power level, but I'd say he probably needs at least 8 Refresh of Powers and Stunts.

I'm thinking powerful, but killable. Since Irish gods aren't as well remembered as Odin is, he doesn't quite have the same amount of power. But nothing to sneeze at.

[Shaft]

Manannán mac Lir
High Concept: Irish Sea Dog... er God

Other Aspects:
Going with the flow to the Nevernever,
Concealed by his Cloak of Mist,
Message in a bottle,
Taking Arms against a Sea of Troubles, 
A friend to the Fomor    A true friend to the Fomor stabs them in the front!
A flood of magical items

Skills and Powers
This is a plot device character.

Assume that he presents challenges of Superb or better to social conflict; in mental, magical, or physical
conflict, most mortals outside of Senior Council wizards don’t stand a chance.

Total Refresh Cost: incalculable.

[Sanctaphrax]

Eh. Even if I didn't dislike the idea of "plot device characters" in general (all characters are plot devices, stats are necessary to act within the game rules, and many of the characters labelled that way are eminently beat-able) I wouldn't see any reason to assume that he's so strong.

Is it just because they use the word "god" to refer to him?

I'm thinking powerful, but killable. Since Irish gods aren't as well remembered as Odin is, he doesn't quite have the same amount of power. But nothing to sneeze at.

How much is "nothing to sneeze at"?

As a person who probably only has about 4 Refresh, I wouldn't sneeze at any supernatural being.

[Trum4n1208]

Manannán mac Lir
High Concept: Irish Sea Dog... er God

Other Aspects:
Going with the flow to the Nevernever,
Concealed by his Cloak of Mist,
Message in a bottle,
Taking Arms against a Sea of Troubles, 
A friend to the Fomor 
A flood of magical items

Skills and Powers
This is a plot device character.

Assume that he presents challenges of Superb or better to social conflict; in mental, magical, or physical
conflict, most mortals outside of Senior Council wizards don’t stand a chance.

Total Refresh Cost: incalculable.

Would you be willing to laborite on what you're thinking for the aspects? That was the biggest issue I had with coming up with him as a character, and I like the name of yours, for sure.

Eh. Even if I didn't dislike the idea of "plot device characters" in general (all characters are plot devices, stats are necessary to act within the game rules, and many of the characters labelled that way are eminently beat-able) I wouldn't see any reason to assume that he's so strong.

Is it just because they use the word "god" to refer to him?

How much is "nothing to sneeze at"?

As a person who probably only has about 4 Refresh, I wouldn't sneeze at any supernatural being.

I agree, I don't want to venture into plot device territory- after all, if he was really that powerful, he'd be a bigger player in our town. I'll mess around with powers and stunts in a bit, but I figure I'll base him off of an emissary of power, give him Supernatural recovery, Inhuman Toughness (catch: Cold Iron, as from what I've read, in Irish Myth, the children of their gods are the Fae, so they'd probably share the same weakness, but not to the same degree (ie. they can touch and use metal, but getting stabbed wouldn't be good for them)), Inhuman Strength, and a few other powers that seem to fit.

I just want to make him an enjoyable character, kind of like how Odin is with Harry. Someone who won't always b able to mount up and fight with them, but who is in the party's corner.

Btw, appreciate the help everyone!

[Shaft]

My thinking was this for the aspects:

High Concept: Irish Sea Dog... er God   ->  Sea Dog is slang for a sailor.  Dog and God sound pretty similar.  It kind of suggests that Manannán thinks of himself as a regular sailor, and has to remind himself that he is in fact a god.

Going with the flow to the Nevernever -> Going with the flow suggests that he's a laid back kind of guy and it's a water pun.  It also suggests that he can use a boat to transport people into the Nevernever, so smoothly that the passengers might not notice it. Manannán seems to be a Charon-like figure who can ferry passengers to the Underworld or Otherworld (or Nevernever).

Concealed by his Cloak of Mist -> Legend has it that Manannán has a cloak of invisibility or mist.  This suggests that he can either make himself invisible with his cloak or use his magic to call up fog around him to conceal him and his boat/passengers.

Message in a bottle -> The classic message in a bottle is thrown in to the sea.  He might use this as a way to discretely communicate with mortals.  It also suggests that he might be the type to chat over a beer. Maybe the players can get visions from him when they get drunk.

Taking Arms against a sea of troubles -> This line is adapted from the Hamlet soliloquy.  Manannán has a powerful sword called Answerer.  He's also a sea god.  It sounds like he's a jolly, piratical sort who will gladly join in a good fight for a good cause.

A friend to the Fomor -> This is probably a complication for the players.  The Fomor are bad guys in Dresden (not sure how much I can say on the board without spoiling, but there is some great info about them on the Dresden wikis).  They have an affinity with water and the sea.  In the same way that Odin has alliances with the Winter Court that he must respect, I see Manannán as someone with complicated allegiances to the Fomor, despite his fondness for mortals such as the PCs.

[Shaft]

>I don't want to venture into plot device territory

Okay, I'd stat him up like this:

Manannán mac Lir
High Concept: Irish Sea Dog... er God
Trouble: A true friend to the Fomor stabs them in the front!
Background: Going with the flow to the Nevernever
Rising Conflict: Concealed by his Cloak of Mist
Other Aspects: Message in a bottle, Taking Arms against a Sea of Troubles, A flood of magical items

Powers:
[-1] Aquatic
[-3] Evocation +1 Control w/ Water, 2 focus items, elements are air, water & spirit
[-3] Thaumaturgy, +1 w/ Crafting, 2 focus items
[-4] Refinement, +1 Control w/ Air, +1 Control w/ Spirit, extra +1 Control w/ Water (+2 total), +2 Focus Items
[-1] The Sight 
[-6] Mythic Recovery
[-6] Mythic Toughness (from Items: flaming helmet & Magic Breastplate, but these are worth nothing since his sword below has the Item of Power bonus; optionally if he is not wearing these, lower the rating to Supernatural)
[+3] The Catch, Cold Iron
[-2] Inhuman Strength
[-1] Ghost Speaker
[-1] Marked by Power
[ 0] Human Guise
[-4] Greater Glamours
[-1] Bless This House
[-2] Righteousness
[-1] Demesne, the Isle of Mann
[+2] Item of Power: unbreakable sword, Fragarach ("The Answerer")
affects

• [-1] Weapon 3 (Weapon 5 with his Inhuman Strength)
• [-1] True Aim +1
• [-1] Supernatural Sense (detect lies)
• [ 0] Channeling (Air) (in another wielder's hands who doesn't have Evocation, this would grant the ability and cost an additional -2 Refresh)

Stunts:
Tower of Faith (armor 1 vs mental and social if he can pray)
Sailor (+1 w/ Boats, +2 w/ Scuabtuinne aka "Wave Sweeper")
Prankster (+2 Deceit when telling riddles or performing pranks)
Nothing to Sneeze At- I'm still a God! (+2 to Intimidation when resisting The Brush Off from a Mortal)
Leadership
Riposte

Skills:
Legendary (+8): Drive (Boats +9, Scuabtuinne aka "Wave Sweeper" +10), Resources
Epic (+7): Conviction, Lore, Presence* (+8 to Command)
Fantastic (+6): Contacts, Deceit* (+8 w/ riddles & pranks), Discipline, Rapport*, Stealth, Weapons (+7 w/ True Aim from sword)
Superb (+5): Alertness, Craftsmanship, Empathy*, Endurance, Fists, Intimidation*
Great (+4): Athletics, Burglary, Guns, Investigation, Might (+5 Grab, +8 Lift), Performance, Scholarship, Survival

*+1 from Marked by Power when dealing with Magical Community
Focus Items:
Scuabtuinne ("Wave Sweeper"): +1 Control & Power with Water spells (worth 2 items)

Enchanted Items:
Sea borne chariot: +3 bonus to Driving, usable 5x
Cloak of Invisibility: +5 bonus to Stealth, usable 3x
Cauldron of Regeneration: +7 to Scholarship (Healing) Rolls
Magic goblet of truth: +5 Empathy to Detect Lies (usable 3x, worth 2 items)
A protective coat, usable by another; +5 Block vs Attacks (usable 3x, worth 2 items)
Potions: 2 slots for potions worth +7, one time each


Stress:
Physical OOOO[OOOOOO] 1 extra Mild Physical, armor 3
Mental OOOO 2 extra Mild Mental , armor 1
Social OOOO 2 extra Mild Social, armor 1

Refresh Cost: -40

[sdfds68]

A friend to the Fomor -> This is probably a complication for the players.  The Fomor are bad guys in Dresden (not sure how much I can say on the board without spoiling, but there is some great info about them on the Dresden wikis).  They have an affinity with water and the sea.  In the same way that Odin has alliances with the Winter Court that he must respect, I see Manannán as someone with complicated allegiances to the Fomor, despite his fondness for mortals such as the PCs.

The Tuatha Dé Danann fought a war against the Fomor and the Fomorian king, Balor, driving them into the sea. Manannan was one of the Tuatha, so I don't think he's very Fomor friendly.

[Shaft]

I yield to your superior knowledge.  Wikipedia merely said that he was affiliated with the Fomor, and I took it to mean allied to the Fomor.  It would be very easy to make Manannan Mac Lir a powerful ally in the battle versus the Fomor.

On the other hand, I recall that America and England recently fought the Germans and Japanese, and now if we drive their cars, it's a sign of success.  Fate and Dresden is about complications- I think it would be far more interesting if Manannan had to comply with some kind of treaty that he had agreed to with the Fomor, but in his heart he still disliked them.

With that in mind, change the aspect to: A true friend to the Fomor stabs them in the front!

[Trum4n1208]

>I don't want to venture into plot device territory

Okay, I'd stat him up like this:

Manannán mac Lir
High Concept: Irish Sea Dog... er God
Trouble: A true friend to the Fomor stabs them in the front!
Background: Going with the flow to the Nevernever
Rising Conflict: Concealed by his Cloak of Mist
Other Aspects: Message in a bottle, Taking Arms against a Sea of Troubles, A flood of magical items

Powers:
[-1] Aquatic
[-3] Evocation +1 Control w/ Water, 2 focus items, elements are air, water & spirit
[-3] Thaumaturgy, +1 w/ Crafting, 2 focus items
[-4] Refinement, +1 Control w/ Air, +1 Control w/ Spirit, extra +1 Control w/ Water (+2 total), +2 Focus Items
[-1] The Sight 
[-6] Mythic Recovery
[-6] Mythic Toughness (from Items: flaming helmet & Magic Breastplate, but these are worth nothing since his sword below has the Item of Power bonus; optionally if he is not wearing these, lower the rating to Supernatural)
[+3] The Catch, Cold Iron
[-2] Supernatural Strength
[-1] Ghost Speaker
[-1] Marked by Power
[ 0] Human Guise
[-4] Greater Glamours
[-1] Bless This House
[-2] Righteousness
[-1] Demesne, the Isle of Mann
[+2] Item of Power: unbreakable sword, Fragarach ("The Answerer")
affects

• [-1] Weapon 2 (Weapon 4 with his Inhuman Strength, Weapon 5 w/ True Aim below)
• [-1] True Aim +1
• [-1] Supernatural Sense (detect lies)
• [ 0] Channeling (Air) (in another wielder's hands who doesn't have Evocation, this would grant the ability and cost an additional -2 Refresh)

Stunts:
Tower of Faith (armor 1 vs mental and social if he can pray)
Sailor (+1 w/ Boats, +2 w/ Scuabtuinne aka "Wave Sweeper")
Prankster (+2 Deceit when telling riddles or performing pranks)
Nothing to Sneeze At- I'm still a God! (+2 to Intimidation when resisting The Brush Off from a Mortal)
Leadership
Riposte

Skills:
Legendary (+8): Drive (Boats +9, Scuabtuinne aka "Wave Sweeper" +10), Resources
Epic (+7): Conviction, Lore, Presence* (+8 to Command)
Fantastic (+6): Contacts, Deceit* (+8 w/ riddles & pranks), Discipline, Rapport*, Stealth, Weapons
Superb (+5): Alertness, Craftsmanship, Empathy*, Endurance, Fists, Intimidation*
Great (+4): Athletics, Burglary, Guns, Investigation, Might (+5 Grab, +8 Lift), Performance, Scholarship, Survival

*+1 from Marked by Power when dealing with Magical Community
Focus Items:
Scuabtuinne ("Wave Sweeper"): +1 Control & Power with Water spells (worth 2 items)

Enchanted Items:
Sea borne chariot: +3 bonus to Driving, usable 5x
Cloak of Invisibility: +5 bonus to Stealth, usable 3x
Cauldron of Regeneration: +7 to Scholarship (Healing) Rolls
Magic goblet of truth: +5 Empathy to Detect Lies (usable 3x, worth 2 items)
A protective coat, usable by another; +5 Block vs Attacks (usable 3x, worth 2 items)
Potions: 2 slots for potions worth +7, one time each


Stress:
Physical OOOO[OOOOOO] 1 extra Mild Physical, armor 3
Mental OOOO 2 extra Mild Mental , armor 1
Social OOOO 2 extra Mild Social, armor 1

Refresh Cost: -40

My friend, you are simply fantastic, thank you kindly. This is an NPC I'm excited about. I'm going to slowly tease his identity over several sessions and have some fun with it. Again, thanks!

sdfds68, thank you for that tidbit. I'll need to look into Irish myth a bit more, it sounds interesting.

[Shaft]

Glad to help.  It was pretty fun to write him up. I look forward to hearing how your game goes.

[sdfds68]

You're quite welcome. Good luck with game.

[Dramin]

This is a really good work up, and I hope that you won't mind if I make use of it in the future. I know that there was a thread for stating gods though.

Stats for Gods

Would this be something that could be added to that thread? Or is that thread mainly for the gods that have made appearances in the books?