Stating Manannan Mac Lir

[Shaft]

You flatter me, sir. 

I have no problem with you or anyone else using this writeup.

I will add this to the writeup for gods.  Thanks for the suggestions.

EDIT: In hindsight, I see the thread is over a year old, so I don't want to perform any necromancy. 

[Sanctaphrax]

I don't mind if you resurrect the thread. You have something to add, and now that I look at it again I might be interested in finishing that project. I have Zion stats and large-scale effect houserules now...

There are a few things I take issue with about your statblock for him, though. Namely...

-You can't have a Demesne in the real world.
-Supernatural Strength costs 4 Refresh. I think you mean Inhuman Strength.
-True Aim boosts skill rolls, not weapon rating.
-Fragarach should probably be weapon 3 base. Might be worth making it deadlier too, IIRC it's supposed to pierce shields and inflict unheal-able wounds.
-I still don't see much reason for him to be this strong. You've given him more skill points than I would give to Mother Winter, and I don't think the word "god" necessarily implies such power.

[Shaft]

>You can't have a Demesne in the real world.

Doesn't Harry have a demesne with Demonreach?  I had intended that Manannán mac Lir has that same supernatural sense of knowledge with the Isle of Mann that Harry has with the island.

>Supernatural Strength costs 4 Refresh. I think you mean Inhuman Strength.

You are correct.

>True Aim boosts skill rolls, not weapon rating.

You are correct, though getting a +1 on a Weapon 2 sword sort of makes it Weapon 3.

>Fragarach should probably be weapon 3 base. Might be worth making it deadlier too, IIRC it's supposed to pierce shields and inflict unheal-able wounds.

With Inhuman Strength, Weapon 2 or 3, he does does 4 or 5 base.  That's equal to or better than a LAW rocket. 

>I still don't see much reason for him to be this strong. You've given him more skill points than I would give to Mother Winter, and I don't think the word "god" necessarily implies such power.

I guess we have different interpretations of the power levels that "god" suggests.  I would be interested in seeing your take.

What do you think of this Skill variation:

Skills:

Epic (+7): Conviction, Lore, Presence* (+8 to Command)
Fantastic (+6): Deceit* (+8 w/ riddles & pranks), Discipline, Weapons (+7 w/ True Aim from sword)
Superb (+5): Contacts, Endurance, Intimidation*, Rapport*, Resources,
Great (+4): Alertness, Athletics, Drive (Boats +5, Scuabtuinne aka "Wave Sweeper" +6), Empathy*, Fists, Might (+5 Grab, +7 Lift), Stealth, Survival
Good (+3): Craftsmanship, Investigation, Performance
Fair (+2): Burglary, Guns, Scholarship

*+1 from Marked by Power when dealing with Magical Community

[Taran]

>You can't have a Demesne in the real world.

Doesn't Harry have a demesne with Demonreach?  I had intended that Manannán mac Lir has that same supernatural sense of knowledge with the Isle of Mann that Harry has with the island.

I see demonreach as sponsored magic because it's intellectus.  When he's on Demonreach, he gets a bunch of powers and access to sponsored debt.  But he can't really manipulate the surroundings with sheer will and/or dictate the terrain.

I'd see Isle of Man similarly:  He's attuned to it and probably gets a bunch of boosts when he's on it.  Probably stuff that boosts his ability to protect it.

Edit:  and - on top of that - maybe he can get collect debt from mortals while there and use that debt to pay off compels, etc...

[Shaft]

Restated with less skill points, this is what he looks like:

Manannán mac Lir
High Concept: Irish Sea Dog... er God
Trouble: A true friend to the Fomor stabs them in the front!
Background: Going with the flow to the Nevernever
Rising Conflict: Concealed by his Cloak of Mist
Other Aspects: Message in a bottle, Taking Arms against a Sea of Troubles, A flood of magical items

Powers:
[-1] Aquatic
[-3] Evocation +1 Control w/ Water, 2 focus items, elements are air, water & spirit
[-3] Thaumaturgy, +1 w/ Crafting, 2 focus items
[-4] Refinement, +1 Control w/ Air, +1 Control w/ Spirit, extra +1 Control w/ Water (+2 total), +2 Focus Items
[-1] The Sight 
[-6] Mythic Recovery
[-6] Mythic Toughness (from Items: flaming helmet & Magic Breastplate, but these are worth nothing since his sword below has the Item of Power bonus; optionally if he is not wearing these, lower the rating to Supernatural)
[+3] The Catch, Cold Iron
[-2] Inhuman Strength
[-1] Ghost Speaker
[-1] Marked by Power
[ 0] Human Guise
[-4] Greater Glamours
[-1] Bless This House
[-2] Righteousness
[-1] "not quite Demesne", the Isle of Mann
[+2] Item of Power: unbreakable sword, Fragarach ("The Answerer")
affects
[-1] Weapon 3 (Weapon 5 with his Inhuman Strength)
[-1] True Aim +1
[-1] Supernatural Sense (detect lies)
[ 0] Channeling (Air) (in another wielder's hands who doesn't have Evocation, this would grant the ability and cost an additional -2 Refresh)

Stunts:
Tower of Faith (armor 1 vs mental and social if he can pray)
Sailor (+1 w/ Boats, +2 w/ Scuabtuinne aka "Wave Sweeper")
Prankster (+2 Deceit when telling riddles or performing pranks)
Nothing to Sneeze At- I'm still a God! (+2 to Intimidation when resisting The Brush Off from a Mortal)
Leadership
Riposte

Skills:

Epic (+7): Conviction, Lore, Presence* (+8 to Command)
Fantastic (+6): Deceit* (+8 w/ riddles & pranks), Discipline, Weapons (+7 w/ True Aim from sword)
Superb (+5): Contacts, Endurance, Intimidation*, Rapport*, Resources,
Great (+4): Alertness, Athletics, Drive (Boats +5, Scuabtuinne aka "Wave Sweeper" +6), Empathy*, Fists, Might (+5 Grab, +7 Lift), Stealth, Survival
Good (+3): Craftsmanship, Investigation, Performance
Fair (+2): Burglary, Guns, Scholarship

*+1 from Marked by Power when dealing with Magical Community
Focus Items:
Scuabtuinne ("Wave Sweeper"): +1 Control & Power with Water spells (worth 2 items)

Enchanted Items:
Sea borne chariot: +3 bonus to Driving, usable 5x
Cloak of Invisibility: +5 bonus to Stealth, usable 3x
Cauldron of Regeneration: +7 to Scholarship (Healing) Rolls
Magic goblet of truth: +5 Empathy to Detect Lies (usable 3x, worth 2 items)
A protective coat, usable by another; +5 Block vs Attacks (usable 3x, worth 2 items)
Potions: 2 slots for potions worth +7, one time each


Stress:
Physical OOOO[OOOOOO] 1 extra Mild Physical, armor 3
Mental OOOO 2 extra Mild Mental , armor 1
Social OOOO 2 extra Mild Social, armor 1

Refresh Cost: -40

[Taran]

What you might want to do is attach a bunch of powers or power upgrades to a limitation so that he only gets those when he's on the Island.  This would actually give him a rebate instead of cost him refresh.

Just a thought.

Or just a [-0] sponsor related to protecting the Island to let him take debt.

[Sanctaphrax]

Doesn't Harry have a demesne with Demonreach?  I had intended that Manannán mac Lir has that same supernatural sense of knowledge with the Isle of Mann that Harry has with the island.

No, Harry doesn't have a Demesne. His supernatural sense of knowledge and the Demesne Power have nothing to do with each other.

With Inhuman Strength, Weapon 2 or 3, he does does 4 or 5 base.  That's equal to or better than a LAW rocket.

With weapon 2 base, it's inferior to a big non-magical sword. A miraculous blade of legend shouldn't have a worse weapon rating than an ordinary blade.

And while it's pretty damaging with his strength, I'm pretty sure the magic of Fragarach was supposed to be in the blade and not just a result of its wielder being hella strong.

I guess we have different interpretations of the power levels that "god" suggests.  I would be interested in seeing your take.

"God" isn't really a well-defined term. It's a sloppy english translation for hundreds of different concepts that have little in common beyond being worshipped. Sometimes "god" refers to an omnipotent being, sometimes it refers to a person with a few magic tricks. This guy seems closer to the low end of the spectrum.

And I could post my take, but I'd like to know more about his myths before I do. Do you know a good place to learn more?

What do you think of this Skill variation:

Skills:

Epic (+7): Conviction, Lore, Presence* (+8 to Command)
Fantastic (+6): Deceit* (+8 w/ riddles & pranks), Discipline, Weapons (+7 w/ True Aim from sword)
Superb (+5): Contacts, Endurance, Intimidation*, Rapport*, Resources,
Great (+4): Alertness, Athletics, Drive (Boats +5, Scuabtuinne aka "Wave Sweeper" +6), Empathy*, Fists, Might (+5 Grab, +7 Lift), Stealth, Survival
Good (+3): Craftsmanship, Investigation, Performance
Fair (+2): Burglary, Guns, Scholarship

Still seems like an awful lot, but I guess it's reasonable if you're aiming to make him extremely strong.

EDIT: Just noticed the enchanted items. Did you add those in an edit? Anyway, enchanted items don't work that way. They don't give skill bonuses. They contain spell effects.

[sdfds68]

[+2] Item of Power: unbreakable sword, Fragarach ("The Answerer")
affects

• It is what is: Weapon 3 (Weapon 5 with his Inhuman Strength)
[-1] True Aim +1
[-1] Supernatural Sense (detect lies)
[ 0] Channeling (Air) (in another wielder's hands who doesn't have Evocation, this would grant the ability and cost an additional -2 Refresh)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragarach

I can see how you're trying to replicate the powers of the sword, but what you have doesn't seem to match up quite like the sword from the legends. May I suggest these powers instead of True aim and Supernatural Sense?

[-1] Breaker: Destroys armor (and shields) as soon as it hits. Ignore armor ratings from equipment
[-1] Answer me!: After a successful weapons maneuver to place this weapon at someone's throat, you may compel that person to stay still and tell the truth. Keep the tag on the successful 'sword at throat' maneuver.

[Shaft]

Thank you for your valuable input and interpretations.

No, Harry doesn't have a Demesne. His supernatural sense of knowledge and the Demesne Power have nothing to do with each other.

So Harry would have the power: Supernatural Sense (miniscule details of Demonreach) with a -1 limitation "only while on the island" for a net cost of 0.

Having said that, for Manannan, he can slip into the NeverNever, so I sort of envision the Isle of Man almost like a gateway realm that simultaenously exists in the NeverNever and the physical plane.  Would Demesne still work for that?

With weapon 2 base, it's inferior to a big non-magical sword. A miraculous blade of legend shouldn't have a worse weapon rating than an ordinary blade.

I thought a knife was Weapon 1 and a sword was Weapon 2.  I guess you're suggesting that a claymore or other big sword is weapon 3.  I always assumed that the Swords of the Cross paid a point to get the extra point of base damage.

And while it's pretty damaging with his strength, I'm pretty sure the magic of Fragarach was supposed to be in the blade and not just a result of its wielder being hella strong.

"God" isn't really a well-defined term. It's a sloppy english translation for hundreds of different concepts that have little in common beyond being worshipped. Sometimes "god" refers to an omnipotent being, sometimes it refers to a person with a few magic tricks. This guy seems closer to the low end of the spectrum.

...

Still seems like an awful lot, but I guess it's reasonable if you're aiming to make him extremely strong.

My knowledge is limited to the Wikipedia page, but the article there suggests that he's a legendary fighter.  I figured he would be similar in Strength to Sigrun Gard (Inhuman Strength) or the generic Asgardian civilians in Marvel/Thor.

And I could post my take, but I'd like to know more about his myths before I do. Do you know a good place to learn more?

This seems to be a pretty good page http://manannan.net/whois/index.html

EDIT: Just noticed the enchanted items. Did you add those in an edit? Anyway, enchanted items don't work that way. They don't give skill bonuses. They contain spell effects.

The Magic Items were there early on.  I intended them to act as maneuver bonuses to the various skills and should have written them up that way, but you're right, they should be written up as spells. 

[Shaft]

[-1] Breaker: Destroys armor (and shields) as soon as it hits. Ignore armor ratings from equipment

I think that's a bit powerful for 1 point, otherwise he can shatter the equivalent of an Item of Power with Mythic Toughness.  I would say that it does 2 extra points of damage only versus a target in armor or using a shield, and the damage bonus applies even if the target is the shield or armor itself.  That's powerful enough to "negate" the effects of a mundane shield and still effective enough to reduce the effectiveness of any high powered armor or shield.

[-1] Answer me!: After a successful weapons maneuver to place this weapon at someone's throat, you may compel that person to stay still and tell the truth. Keep the tag on the successful 'sword at throat' maneuver.

This effect seems to work like an Enchanted Item.  I like it.

[Sanctaphrax]

So Harry would have the power: Supernatural Sense (miniscule details of Demonreach) with a -1 limitation "only while on the island" for a net cost of 0.

Limitation can't reduce a cost to 0. But yeah, it could be Supernatural Sense.

Having said that, for Manannan, he can slip into the NeverNever, so I sort of envision the Isle of Man almost like a gateway realm that simultaenously exists in the NeverNever and the physical plane.  Would Demesne still work for that?

Demesne lets you control the physical form of a Nevernever region. That's it, that's all.

So if the island was already partially inside the Nevernever, it would let him turn the Nevernever part of it into an ice cream cone. But it wouldn't make the island into a gateway realm.

I thought a knife was Weapon 1 and a sword was Weapon 2.  I guess you're suggesting that a claymore or other big sword is weapon 3.  I always assumed that the Swords of the Cross paid a point to get the extra point of base damage.

Unlikely. "Two-handed weapons" are weapon 3. Warden swords are also weapon 3 regardless of size, because they're really good swords.

My knowledge is limited to the Wikipedia page, but the article there suggests that he's a legendary fighter.  I figured he would be similar in Strength to Sigrun Gard (Inhuman Strength) or the generic Asgardian civilians in Marvel/Thor.

This seems to be a pretty good page http://manannan.net/whois/index.html

Alright, I'll take a crack at him.

And I think Inhuman Strength is reasonable. When I said "make him extremely strong" I mean strength as in overall power.

[sdfds68]

I think that's a bit powerful for 1 point, otherwise he can shatter the equivalent of an Item of Power with Mythic Toughness.  I would say that it does 2 extra points of damage only versus a target in armor or using a shield, and the damage bonus applies even if the target is the shield or armor itself.  That's powerful enough to "negate" the effects of a mundane shield and still effective enough to reduce the effectiveness of any high powered armor or shield.

IoP's are already protected from destruction as part of their package. They can only be destroyed after their purpose is perverted by a ritual. The power could be edited to only work on mundane and enchanted sources of armor, if you want, so that IoP armors wouldn't be ignored by Answerer.

[Sanctaphrax]

Not gonna bother with a new set of Aspects. I decided to make him positive-Refresh at the Snorkelling level, because he seems like a fun player character type to me.

If I wanted to push him into negatives I'd add Aquatic, some physical building blocks, and some stunts to round out his mundane skills.

Skills:
Superb: Weapons, Lore
Great: Deceit, Intimidation, Rapport
Good: Conviction, Discipline, Endurance
Fair: Athletics, Presence, Fists
Average: Alertness, Empathy, Might
Stunts:
Secrets of the Sea (Lore): Use Lore to pilot Scuabtuinne and his sea chariot.
Powers:
Wizard's Constitution [-0]
Undying [-0]
Marked By Power [-1]
Ghost Speaker [-1]
Worldwalker [-2]
Thaumaturgy [-3]
Refinement [-3]
Item of Power (Fragarach) [+2]
  Really Sharp (It's weapon 5.) [-1]
  Cut Shields (Ignores mundane worn armour.) [-1]
  The Answerer (When holding it to someone's throat, +2 Intimidation for interrogation and blocking actions.) [-1]
  Ritual (Aeromancy) [-0]
Magic:
Thaumaturgy: +1 isle of man control, +2 crafting complexity, +1 crafting frequency
Enchanted Items (2 uses/session): Invisibility cloak (7-shift veil), cup (7-shift Empathy lie detection roll), coat (7-shift block against attack), breastplate (armour 4), 5 potion slots (strength 7)
Total Refresh Cost:
-12
Refresh Total:
1

[vultur]

Here's my take on Fragarach....

Item of Power: Fragarach [-2, or -1 if the wielder already has Riposte]
  It Is What It Is: Weapon:3, masterfully-crafted Celtic sword
  Armor Cutter: ignore up to 2 points of armor from any source
  Riposte
  True Aim
  Wind Blast: attack from up to 2 zones away

[Shaft]

I decided to make him positive-Refresh at the Snorkelling level, because he seems like a fun player character type to me.

This is a great build.

My only suggestion would be to add the Glamor power.  In one legend, he conjured up the image of an entire fleet to scare off invaders.

Here's my take on Fragarach....

  Wind Blast: attack from up to 2 zones away

Good build.  I would add Ritual (Aeromancy) as well since it's suggested that the sword can be used to blow air into the sails of a ship.