Mab preventing use of Little Chicago

[Griffyn612]

This came up recently, and I think most of the parts were mentioned separately, but wanted to consolidate if we could.

The theory is that Mab prevented Harry from using Little Chicago during the events of TURN COAT, and possibly even prevented him from using Mouse for his tracking abiltiies.  (I'm leaving out any speculation about her motive, as that's more subjective)

Possible Clues
 - Harry doesn't mention LC at all in the book, and instead uses his copper circle in the basement to look for Thomas, rather than LC.
 - Harry describes the table holding LC, but not that it has LC, and only describes it as being covered in a tarp.
 - Harry has a convenient headache when trying to figure out how to track Thomas, which distracts him from Mouse, who Harry later realizes could have tracked Thomas.

* Spoiler tags used to just condense post down to bearable levels.

The Copper Circle

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Harry uses Little Chicago to try and find Molly in PROVEN GUILTY.  Harry uses Little Chicago to track Grey Cloak (Vitto) in WHITE NIGHT.  Harry uses Little Chicago to distract the Gruffs in SMALL FAVOR. 

A long table in the middle of the room was currently covered by a canvas tarp, and the floor at the far end of the lab had a perfect circle of pure copper embedded in it. The remains of several differently structured tracking attempts were scattered on the floor around the circle, while the props and foci from the most recent failure were still inside it.

But with his brother missing and being tortured by one of the most evil beings Harry's ever laid his Sight on, he settles for tracking spells using the copper circle?  And completely neglects to mention LC in text, or even explain why it isn't used? 

That doesn't make any sense.

The Tarp

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In SMALL FAVOR, Mab manipulated Harry's memory to remove any recollection whatsoever of his fire magic and blasting rod.  When Harry finally pushes through her manipulation (with Michael's help) he sees the form of the blasting rod covered in a tarp, which seems to prevent him from remembering it or realizing what it is.

Pain stabbed me in the head, ice picks plunging into both temples. I flinched and doubled over. Blasting rod. Familiar words. I fought to summon an image of what went with the words, but I couldn’t find anything. I knew I had a memory associated with those words, but try as I might, I couldn’t drag it out. It was like a shape covered by some heavy tarp. I knew an object was beneath, but I couldn’t get to it.

While its covered with the tarp, Harry doesn't even suspect that the knowledge of something has been taken from him.  Which fits with the idea of Little Chicago being wiped from his memory.  He doesn't mention it, and it's described in a similar (and dismissive) fashion while talking about trying tracking spells.

A long table in the middle of the room was currently covered by a canvas tarp, and the floor at the far end of the lab had a perfect circle of pure copper embedded in it. The remains of several differently structured tracking attempts were scattered on the floor around the circle, while the props and foci from the most recent failure were still inside it.

Now, prior to this, I have no doubt that Harry would have described that table as "the table containing Little Chicago" or "the table holding up my model of the city".  But now it's just "a long table in the middle of the room".  No importance at all.

That's suspicious.

The Headaches of Manipulation

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We know for a fact that many of Harry's headaches later in the series are due to the SoI growing in his head.  That's a given, based on what we saw in COLD DAYS and SKIN GAME.

But there are hints that not all of them are attributed to that.  We know of at least once in the series where Mab manipulated Harry's memory, which was when she removed knowledge of fire magic and his blasting rod.  The following is a description of when she took the information, what happened when he tried to remember it, and when he finally recalled what it was.

Mab’s frozen-berry lips lifted in a silent snarl, and the world turned into a curtain of white agony that centered on my eyes. Nothing had ever hurt so much. I fell down, but I wasn’t lucky enough to hit my head and knock myself unconscious. I couldn’t move. I couldn’t breathe. I couldn’t scream.

There's no direct correlation, but at the beginning of TURN COAT, Harry is suffering from a very bad headache that's kept him in bed all day.

The summer sun was busy broiling the asphalt from Chicago’s streets, the agony in my head had kept me horizontal for half a day, and some idiot was pounding on my apartment door.
...
Up until that moment, I’d been laboring under the misapprehension that the splitting pain in my skull would be the worst thing to happen to me today.

The theory idea is that just before Morgan arrives, Mab knows that he's coming (because she's Mab) and takes away Harry's memory of Little Chicago.  Which explains why we don't see him wondering about at one point in the book but not another; because the manipulation happens off-screen.

The Headaches of Suppression

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We've seen two instances where the Queens have obviously manipulated others, and trying to overcome that manipulation resulted in headaches.

Back in SMALL FAVOR, when Harry almost inadvertently remembers using fire magic.

On the opposite side of Ivy, Rosanna launched more traditional lances of flame from her open palms, much like the ones I— —a savage pain went through my skull for a second—son of a bitch— —but Ivy dispersed them with delicately applied wedges of air, intercepting each burst of fire far enough short of her body to prevent the bloom of heat as they died from scorching her—though the two more physical Denarians who strained to force their way past the barrier of snapping sparks that formed whenever they tried to get close had far less luck.

And in SMALL FAVOR, when he actively tries to recall what a blasting rod is.

Pain stabbed me in the head, ice picks plunging into both temples. I flinched and doubled over. Blasting rod. Familiar words. I fought to summon an image of what went with the words, but I couldn’t find anything. I knew I had a memory associated with those words, but try as I might, I couldn’t drag it out. It was like a shape covered by some heavy tarp. I knew an object was beneath, but I couldn’t get to it.

Which is also reminiscent of Lily trying to work around Titania's manipulation.

“I know,” Lily said. She lifted her hand to a temple and closed her eyes in a faint frown of pain. “But…’’ She shook her head and fell silent again as Titania’s binding sealed her tongue.

Which is somewhat similar to what happens to Harry when Mouse tries to give him the idea to use him to search for Thomas.

Mouse pawed at my leg and looked up at me. I bent over to scratch his ears, and instantly regretted it as someone tightened a vise on my temples. I straightened up again in a hurry, wincing, and entertained wild fantasies about lying down on the floor and sleeping for a week.

Harry even realizes it later, when he confirms with Mouse that he intended to help Harry. 

“Earlier tonight,” I said, “when I was trying to figure out how to find Thomas, you interrupted me. I didn’t think about it before now, but you helped him track me down when Madrigal Raith was auctioning me off on eBay.”

Now, if you'll note, if there were a compulsion to try and stop Harry from using Mouse to find Thomas, it must have stopped working for Harry to have that clear thought.  Which means either he was manipulated, and it was just a conveniently distracting headache, or the thing that was needed of him was already done. 

That's where the theory not previously mentioned by me (that Mab wanted Harry to bond with Demonreach) comes in to play.  Since Harry couldn't find Thomas, he decided to face Shagnasty mano-e-mano.  And to do that, he went to the island and completed the ritual.  And after that has been done, Harry can suddenly realize what Mouse was trying to do.

That may not have been the linchpin moment.  Maybe something else happened to release the compulsion from Harry.  But that's what others have suspected might be the motivation for such an action from Mab.

[Eldest Gruff]

Mab was fairly confident that Harry would "kneel before her". We've already seen she has a great deal of foresight, if for no other reason to prepare for any and all eventualities, i.e. Lady Molly. Now if she was THAT confident in Harry's eventual subjugation, then it stands to reason having Demonreach in the chamber would be quite handy. Even if it is Harry who is the Warden, an entire army and powerbase like that could come in quite handy if one ever had to 'go nuclear' against say, the Outsiders?

Mab seemed unsurprised in the least about why Harry called on her in Changes, she knew about Maggie. If we assume that she knew about Harry's child some time ago, she would likely have seen an avenue wherein she would be put in danger...after all the Red Court War was still in full swing.

So we have her increasing interference and influence within Harry's cases, the mind manipulation and the general use of giving just enough info or insight to keep Harry going in the direction she wants. Why not then manipulate events to drive Harry towards the island...and island he already knows has a large ley line beneath it, (the reason we obviously find out later), and can sense the inherent malevolent nature that steered settlers away for a century or two.

All in all it certainly seems plausible if not likely that Mab was involved in Harry's eventual obtaining of the island.

[Tami Seven]

I like the theory that Mab had wiped the memory of LC well before hand. It makes sense. Yet, as good as Mab is at playing chess, could she really be sure that Harry would go to Demonreach as a result of her meddling? And what if Shagnasty had killed Thomas...how would that have affected her plans, especially if Harry figures out what she did and held her responsible?

I can see her doing it, yet there is something about it that bothers me. Maybe it's that she would have had predicted that Shagnasty would show up and abduct Thomas. How could she have known that? How could she have known that Harry would have an urgent need to use LC and that keeping him from doing so would lead him to Demonreach?

[Eldest Gruff]

I like the theory that Mab had wiped the memory of LC well before hand. It makes sense. Yet, as good as Mab is at playing chess, could she really be sure that Harry would go to Demonreach as a result of her meddling? And what if Shagnasty had killed Thomas...how would that have affected her plans, especially if Harry figures out what she did and held her responsible?

I can see her doing it, yet there is something about it that bothers me. Maybe it's that she would have had predicted that Shagnasty would show up and abduct Thomas. How could she have known that? How could she have known that Harry would have an urgent need to use LC and that keeping him from doing so would lead him to Demonreach?

She couldn't, it the same way that she couldn't KNOW Maeve would shoot Lily and pull the trigger on herself. But it all worked out didn't it? Because she prepared for a backup of a backup. Playing the odds, not putting your eggs in one basket deal. Demonreach was already a supernatural nexus of sorts and one Harry had a big experience on, (Denarians kidnap Ivy/Marcone, shoot Michael there.) Magic is about Meaning as Harry keeps telling us, its a place well off the main land, plenty of room to roam around and keep 'innocents' from the crossfire AND to top it all off, its a place of significance to Harry...one he's already faced a trial of sorts on AND a place that he has familiarity with when his second 'Sight' starts to come in. Now obviously he was ignorant of the eventual meaning the island would hold to his future at the time BUT, it left a significant enough impression and was right smack in the middle of nowhere. Again, she may not have KNOWN or even been able to guarantee, but the man is a creature of habit with a capital H and the odds were in her favor.

[bigdangmoose]

What's to say that Mab didn't nudge shagnasty after Morgan? Its a variable outcome to know if Thomas would be kidnapped, but just brining shaggy into play increases the odds, especially when Mab knows about Thomas and that is a hot button when it comes to Harry.

[Lawgiver]

She couldn't,

Are we absolutely sure about that? We have zero information about who/what it was that put Shagnasty on to Morgan in the first place. If Mab directed its attention at the fleeing Warden, knowing he was headed for Harry, so it would follow him (possibly even made a deal with it to do so?) that would go a long, long way towards much of the events in that book occurring in just the way she would want them to.

No,proof, mind, just a big What If WAG.. but in a certain twisted little way it fits.
/shrug

edit: Ah, the moose beat me to it.
darn

[Tami Seven]

What's to say that Mab didn't nudge shagnasty after Morgan? Its a variable outcome to know if Thomas would be kidnapped, but just brining shaggy into play increases the odds, especially when Mab knows about Thomas and that is a hot button when it comes to Harry.

Mab didn't really need shagnasty, she could have found another, maybe someone from Winter, to kidnap Thomas. Not unlike the fetches kidnapping Molly. In theory anyway.

Hey, maybe Mab hired Shagnasty to kidnap Thomas. Maybe Shagnasty owed her a favor and this was his way of repaying the debt.

[smwood]

The Headaches of Suppression

(click to show/hide)

We've seen two instances where the Queens have obviously manipulated others, and trying to overcome that manipulation resulted in headaches.

Back in SMALL FAVOR, when Harry almost inadvertently remembers using fire magic.
And in SMALL FAVOR, when he actively tries to recall what a blasting rod is.
Which is also reminiscent of Lily trying to work around Titania's manipulation.
Which is somewhat similar to what happens to Harry when Mouse tries to give him the idea to use him to search for Thomas.
Harry even realizes it later, when he confirms with Mouse that he intended to help Harry. 
Now, if you'll note, if there were a compulsion to try and stop Harry from using Mouse to find Thomas, it must have stopped working for Harry to have that clear thought.  Which means either he was manipulated, and it was just a conveniently distracting headache, or the thing that was needed of him was already done. 

That's where the theory not previously mentioned by me (that Mab wanted Harry to bond with Demonreach) comes in to play.  Since Harry couldn't find Thomas, he decided to face Shagnasty mano-e-mano.  And to do that, he went to the island and completed the ritual.  And after that has been done, Harry can suddenly realize what Mouse was trying to do.

That may not have been the linchpin moment.  Maybe something else happened to release the compulsion from Harry.  But that's what others have suspected might be the motivation for such an action from Mab.

I don't think Harry intended to fight Shagnasty man to man, that is why he lured the Raiths and Wizards, and brought the Zalord's army, and werewolves.  It is a link to why he did his ritual, but Harry mainly did it to lure out the traitors. 
You may be on to something about mind manipulation, but it makes more sense to me that it was the unborn SOI doing it,  not Mab.  The SOI had all the knowledge of Lash (and Harry), and likely knew that Harry would fare poorly in a one on one fight with Shagnasty.  She may have feared for her own life.

[Sully]

But with his brother missing and being tortured by one of the most evil beings Harry's ever laid his Sight on, he settles for tracking spells using the copper circle?  And completely neglects to mention LC in text, or even explain why it isn't used? 

That doesn't make any sense.

Does LC have Demonreach installed on it?

[namkcas]

Well, I think a better way of saying that is "Why would you believe that Shagnasty had Thomas in Chicago?"  Little Chicago only matters if he is.  If he is not, the best you might know is what path was taken.  I also thought the use of LC was essentially a tracking spell in any case.  So, maybe Harry figures if he gets nothing from tracking spells at all why spend all the energy to use LC. 

[Griffyn612]

I don't think Harry intended to fight Shagnasty man to man, that is why he lured the Raiths and Wizards, and brought the Zalord's army, and werewolves.  It is a link to why he did his ritual, but Harry mainly did it to lure out the traitors. 
You may be on to something about mind manipulation, but it makes more sense to me that it was the unborn SOI doing it,  not Mab.  The SOI had all the knowledge of Lash (and Harry), and likely knew that Harry would fare poorly in a one on one fight with Shagnasty.  She may have feared for her own life.

The SoI is certainly a possibility.  I'm not sure how cognizant it was at that point, and we can't know for sure until we're told.  But I could see it trying to manipulate Harry to preserve itself, but it would have to have a purpose.  It seems odd to just want to prevent Harry from using Mouse to find Thomas. 

Does LC have Demonreach installed on it?

I don't imagine so.  He had to put all the pieces together for LC prior to PROVEN GUILTY, and there was no mention of him updating it to include the island after SMALL FAVOR.  And since he always seemed to have some level of omniscience on the island, I doubt he'd feel a need.

Well, I think a better way of saying that is "Why would you believe that Shagnasty had Thomas in Chicago?"  Little Chicago only matters if he is.  If he is not, the best you might know is what path was taken.  I also thought the use of LC was essentially a tracking spell in any case.  So, maybe Harry figures if he gets nothing from tracking spells at all why spend all the energy to use LC. 

It's possible, but the point is, all the other tracking spells failed.  I can't see Harry not trying LC when everything failed, just in case.  That's like saying, "No, we're not going to ping his phone to locate him, the Shagnasty surely ditched that."  But it doesn't hurt to try if everything else fails.

[peregrine]

My own prejudices are against Mab being behind it because I don't like Mab being behind everything, and "The same words were used to describe this" ignores the very real issue that it's secretly the same person writing everything in the series, so he's going to use the same phrasing more than once.  Like the "Ice pick headache" thing.

That said, didn't Harry need a chunk of the car to track down people using LC before?  And he lacked that thaumaturgical connection with Thomas, yes?

[Rykel22]

I have to wonder if Harry did use LC would he have gotten psychic backlash from Shagnasty. Cowl's banishing of Harry on WN melted some of LC remember.

[peregrine]

I have to wonder if Harry did use LC would he have gotten psychic backlash from Shagnasty. Cowl's banishing of Harry on WN melted some of LC remember.

Hard to say, since the melting was because of a lot of energy dumped into the system by Cowl, and Shagnasty doesn't seem much for the evocation like that.

Technically, the melting was to save Harry's brain from LC blowing it up when it failed deadly, but that's not necessarily relevant to the question of bad guys throwing energy around.

[Griffyn612]

I have to wonder if Harry did use LC would he have gotten psychic backlash from Shagnasty. Cowl's banishing of Harry on WN melted some of LC remember.

Yeah, I think it would take a focused attack on Harry's astral self to cause that damage again.  Shagnasty might be able to do that, but I'm not sure that Harry would even need to go astral.  he could probably just do a location spell like he did for Molly in Proven Guilty.

As for Cowl's attack, I'm assuming the damage was repaired between White Night and Small Favor, since he used it in the latter without concern.