Author Topic: Proven Guilty Mysteries  (Read 29861 times)

Offline Foxed

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Re: Proven Guilty Mysteries
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2015, 05:30:31 PM »
So the more I turn it over, the more I like the newer Future Harry theory I came up with. It's pretty raw, and does nothing to explain who attacked Harry but...

Listen. Harry Dresden is unstuck in time.

It would allow him to time travel while minimizing the, ah, let's call it the Two Bodies Problem (arranging things so Harry and Future Harry don't meet).

It would explain the line, "You are much easier to talk to when you are asleep, my host."

I'll further posit that Future Harry has ordered Lash to maintain the timestream by acting like Little Chicago is not fixed. (Broken timestream is inimical to everyone's survival, including Lasciel, whose spiritual self is bound to the material realm through the Coin.)

It would explain away the Two Mantles Problem as well. There's just one hitch with the Unstuck Harry theory:

Who hit Harry?

The accident is to make Harry think he has a concussion instead of too many people in his head, but Unstuck Harry would need an accomplice to do it. He has Thomas following him for the case until he needs to be rescued from Darby and Glau, so I posit that Thomas is the assailant in the beginning chapters.


Actually, I can explain that.

There are no witnesses to the accident. Earlier in the same car ride, Harry makes a big deal about how real Lash's illusions are. I've already posited that Unstuck Harry is working with Lash, so Lash could have created the illusion of the other car, tricked Harry into a non-fatal car crash, and used the concussion to hide the presence of Unstuck Harry in Harry's already crowded head.

It's official. Unstuck Harry is the new black.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 09:54:31 PM by Foxed »
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Offline raidem

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Re: Proven Guilty Mysteries
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2015, 05:40:00 PM »
Quote
Who hit Harry?
I actually like that hit to be the bad guys screwing over the time line.  Which then leads to a response by Team Dresden to counter it.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
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Offline Foxed

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Re: Proven Guilty Mysteries
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2015, 09:55:10 PM »
There's just one hitch with the Unstuck Harry theory:

Who hit Harry?

The accident is to make Harry think he has a concussion instead of too many people in his head, but Unstuck Harry would need an accomplice to do it. He has Thomas following him for the case until he needs to be rescued from Darby and Glau, so I posit that Thomas is the assailant in the beginning chapters.

Actually, I can explain that.

There are no witnesses to the accident. Earlier in the same car ride, Harry makes a big deal about how real Lash's illusions are. I've already posited that Unstuck Harry is working with Lash, so Lash could have created the illusion of the other car, tricked Harry into a non-fatal car crash, and used the concussion to hide the presence of Unstuck Harry in Harry's already crowded head
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Proven Guilty Mysteries
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2015, 10:25:11 PM »
Actually, I can explain that.

There are no witnesses to the accident. Earlier in the same car ride, Harry makes a big deal about how real Lash's illusions are. I've already posited that Unstuck Harry is working with Lash, so Lash could have created the illusion of the other car, tricked Harry into a non-fatal car crash, and used the concussion to hide the presence of Unstuck Harry in Harry's already crowded head
Grayson the cop said it looked like Harry (the beetle) got hit a couple times. 

Offline Quantus

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Re: Proven Guilty Mysteries
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2015, 06:50:50 PM »
Grayson the cop said it looked like Harry (the beetle) got hit a couple times.
But to be fair it always looks like that, and harry did bounce around it traffic a bit, or at least curbside.  It would take somebody that sees it often enough to recognize new damage, i would think.  Murphy might have been able to spot what's fresh, or thomas
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Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Proven Guilty Mysteries
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2015, 10:32:55 PM »
I think most of the mysteries of Proven Guilty are in fact intended to get Harry to Arctis Tor at that particular time to witness the aftermath of the attack and the cure of Lea. That means Mab.

On approaching Arctis Tor Harry see the bones of the Defenders destroyed by much, much more fire than Harry could have produced, specifically Hellfire. Harry is a powerful Wizard and has an affinity for fire and is backed by a Denarian and couldn't have pulled this off. Thorned Namshiel most likely wasn't powerful enough either.

Only one being is at that power level and wields Hellfire. Lucifer. He is mentioned in PG "of course, I suppose someone looked down upon young Lucifer and considered what tremendous potential he contained" page 391 Orbit Edition. Did events get Harry thinking of Lucifer?

What could have drawn a Nemesis agent out to attack Arctis Tor? It doesn't weaken the Winter Court in defending the Gates . I think the reason was to release/kill the Nemesis infected Lea, but the attack failed to do either.

The Winter/Summer conflict was engineered by Mab to leave Arctis Tor relatively lightly defended, with Lea as bait. She used this to confirm Maeves infection (suspicions raised by Her use of Jenny Greenteeth against the Bordens against Faerie nature) and to draw out Lucifer.

In parallel she needed Dresden to witness events, Molly was the plan for that, abduct her and take her to Arctis Tor. Mab arranged for the Gatekeeper to tip Harry off, for the car accident to give her time to fix Little Chicago, fix Little Chicargo so Harry could pinpoint the black magic (only for that to be unnecessary due to Molly phoning him, poor Harry a concussion from Mab for nothing). Sandra Marling was most likely a tool of Mab, perhaps Ekdest Fetch? As the connector between Molly and the Con, and setting up Madrigal (who is also a suspected agent of the Black Council.

Why have Dresden witness this? Well he passed on the fact of the use of Hellfire at Arctis Tor to Nicodemus in Small Favour, which appears to have set the ball rolling on the events in Skin Game, and of course Lucifer was powering the traps for Marcone and the Archive.

In Changes Lucifer whispers to Dresden the words which provoke the attempt on his life to thwart Mab, breaking the 'rules' leading Mab to take extreme measures to save Dresden. Preservation of an eye witness to Arctis Tor? Revenge for breaking up Lucifer /Nic? Nic goes for the knife as it can kill Lucifer who Nic strongly suspects is Nemesis infected and changes the whole motivation of the Fall.

Oh and Mac witnessed Maeve in the pub, he's working for Mab, why else did he get neutral status, and get healed by her in Cold Days, no debt incurred.







« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 10:45:06 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline raidem

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Re: Proven Guilty Mysteries
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2015, 11:35:43 PM »
I'm gonna approach this from the perspective that Harry's Team needed to be there.  They needed knowledge of the events so that they can use that knowledge in the future.

It goes somewhere along the lines of prevailing thoughts in the first few books:
Tell Murphy everything.

Assume for the sake of argument that TTMurphy=Mab.
Then the more that our Murphy gains in knowledge, the better able Mab will be able to deal with it.  It applies for all members of Team Dresden, or in Murphy's words, Team Murphy. 
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
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Offline brighellac

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Re: Proven Guilty Mysteries
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2015, 01:14:15 AM »
I think most of the mysteries of Proven Guilty are in fact intended to get Harry to Arctis Tor at that particular time to witness the aftermath of the attack and the cure of Lea. That means Mab.

On approaching Arctis Tor Harry see the bones of the Defenders destroyed by much, much more fire than Harry could have produced, specifically Hellfire. Harry is a powerful Wizard and has an affinity for fire and is backed by a Denarian and couldn't have pulled this off. Thorned Namshiel most likely wasn't powerful enough either.

Only one being is at that power level and wields Hellfire. Lucifer. He is mentioned in PG "of course, I suppose someone looked down upon young Lucifer and considered what tremendous potential he contained" page 391 Orbit Edition. Did events get Harry thinking of Lucifer?

What could have drawn a Nemesis agent out to attack Arctis Tor? It doesn't weaken the Winter Court in defending the Gates . I think the reason was to release/kill the Nemesis infected Lea, but the attack failed to do either.

The Winter/Summer conflict was engineered by Mab to leave Arctis Tor relatively lightly defended, with Lea as bait. She used this to confirm Maeves infection (suspicions raised by Her use of Jenny Greenteeth against the Bordens against Faerie nature) and to draw out Lucifer.

In parallel she needed Dresden to witness events, Molly was the plan for that, abduct her and take her to Arctis Tor. Mab arranged for the Gatekeeper to tip Harry off, for the car accident to give her time to fix Little Chicago, fix Little Chicargo so Harry could pinpoint the black magic (only for that to be unnecessary due to Molly phoning him, poor Harry a concussion from Mab for nothing). Sandra Marling was most likely a tool of Mab, perhaps Ekdest Fetch? As the connector between Molly and the Con, and setting up Madrigal (who is also a suspected agent of the Black Council.

Why have Dresden witness this? Well he passed on the fact of the use of Hellfire at Arctis Tor to Nicodemus in Small Favour, which appears to have set the ball rolling on the events in Skin Game, and of course Lucifer was powering the traps for Marcone and the Archive.

In Changes Lucifer whispers to Dresden the words which provoke the attempt on his life to thwart Mab, breaking the 'rules' leading Mab to take extreme measures to save Dresden. Preservation of an eye witness to Arctis Tor? Revenge for breaking up Lucifer /Nic? Nic goes for the knife as it can kill Lucifer who Nic strongly suspects is Nemesis infected and changes the whole motivation of the Fall.

Oh and Mac witnessed Maeve in the pub, he's working for Mab, why else did he get neutral status, and get healed by her in Cold Days, no debt incurred.

What was the name of lea's driver in changes?  Maybe he did it at mab's command