Deirdre's Coin [Possible Spoilers]

[Mith]

My understanding about Nic is not that he deliberately broke his word, so much as that he was very careful to leave loopholes he could exploit.  I could be wrong though.

[kazimmoinuddin]

 As an oath breaker to the accords, this allow mab and other to act against him correct. Summer and winter working together to really mess the denarains up. Usually, they need a connection to interfere, but the accords will suffice. If no longer accord members, then those that are can act with out consequences towards them.

[ShadowWing]

The thing to remember about the Accords is there is the Letter of the Law only...there is no Spirit of the Law in the Accords, which is why exact words are so importiant to the supernatural.  Mab doesn't care what you do, as long as you follow the letter of the law in the Accords.

You break the LETTER of the law, and Mab puts you on her list of 'People to do Bad Things To'.  In Small Favor Nic and Co didn't just 'violate the rules of a duel' he frigging KIDNAPPED the Neutral Party requested to supervise the conflict and resolve it!  Then subjected said party to untold horrors and tortures.  Yeah, Nic didn't just kick a little sand in Mab's eye with that stunt, he pretty much hurled a huge ball of mud at her and dared her to come after him.

So Mab took her sweet time to line up her revenge, she knows that Nicklehead corrupted by Nemesis invaded her Stronghold, with the help of her corrupted DAUGHTER, as far as she cares Nic could be part of the 'Team Nemesis' and even if she's not.  Per the LETTER of the Accords he's the head of the Order ergo any crimes commited by the Corrupted Nickleheads are his crimes as well.  So she's got that beef with him as well.

Nic got very well bloodied in Skin Game, he lost allot of his previous advantages.  Mab most likely has sent word to the other Accords members that if Nic wasn't on the poison list before he is now!   But as others have said...he's alive and still has some resources and the grail so he'll be back.

[The Badger]

The thing to remember about the Accords is there is the Letter of the Law only...there is no Spirit of the Law in the Accords, which is why exact words are so importiant to the supernatural.  Mab doesn't care what you do, as long as you follow the letter of the law in the Accords.

You break the LETTER of the law, and Mab puts you on her list of 'People to do Bad Things To'.  In Small Favor Nic and Co didn't just 'violate the rules of a duel' he frigging KIDNAPPED the Neutral Party requested to supervise the conflict and resolve it!  Then subjected said party to untold horrors and tortures.  Yeah, Nic didn't just kick a little sand in Mab's eye with that stunt, he pretty much hurled a huge ball of mud at her and dared her to come after him.

So Mab took her sweet time to line up her revenge, she knows that Nicklehead corrupted by Nemesis invaded her Stronghold, with the help of her corrupted DAUGHTER, as far as she cares Nic could be part of the 'Team Nemesis' and even if she's not.  Per the LETTER of the Accords he's the head of the Order ergo any crimes commited by the Corrupted Nickleheads are his crimes as well.  So she's got that beef with him as well.

Nic got very well bloodied in Skin Game, he lost allot of his previous advantages.  Mab most likely has sent word to the other Accords members that if Nic wasn't on the poison list before he is now!   But as others have said...he's alive and still has some resources and the grail so he'll be back.

If he broke the Accords in Small Favor, why didn't he already lose his reputation?  And IIRC, Nic said that he would treat fairly with Dresden UNTIL he got the Grail. 

So the violation was more Small Favor and not this.  Or am I misreading it?

[Acalanthis]

I'm thinking that Small Favor was less of a violation because Accord members are expected to be capable of taking care of themselves.  If you don't have the muscle to back up your claim as an Accord member, then you're screwed, period.

[The Badger]

I'm thinking that Small Favor was less of a violation because Accord members are expected to be capable of taking care of themselves.  If you don't have the muscle to back up your claim as an Accord member, then you're screwed, period.

This isn't throwing an elbow at a fellow boxer.  This is trying to shoot the referee.

[Acalanthis]

This isn't throwing an elbow at a fellow boxer.  This is trying to shoot the referee.

And what I'm saying is that Mab doesn't care if you shoot the ref.  She's MAB, for crying out loud, her idea of rehab is attempting to assassinate Harry once a day.  If the ref doesn't have the strength to take the bullet and give back as good as he got he has no business being a signatory.

[The Badger]

And what I'm saying is that Mab doesn't care if you shoot the ref.  She's MAB, for crying out loud, her idea of rehab is attempting to assassinate Harry once a day.  If the ref doesn't have the strength to take the bullet and give back as good as he got he has no business being a signatory.

If the ref is supposed to be off limits in the letter of the Law, how is it NOT a issue with Mab?  JB has been quite clear on that front.

Edited to add: I am not sure that the ref is off limits.  But then again, you can't be sure of that either, most likely.

[Quantus]

I'm thinking that Small Favor was less of a violation because Accord members are expected to be capable of taking care of themselves.  If you don't have the muscle to back up your claim as an Accord member, then you're screwed, period.

No, it was indeed a violation of the Accords.  Not because one signatory attacked another (marcone), but because one signatory attacked a neutral third party acting as arbiter on behalf of the Accords themselves (Ivy).  And Mab did say outright that he violated the accords, so there's not much question. 

I think the issue was that she already owed Nic this specific prior personal debt, which she was obligated to reconcile before she could then step in and deliver the punitive action she wanted to on behalf of the Accords.  Otherwise she'd have maneuvered herself into the same trap Harry brought up to Eldest Gruff, by taking direct action that made it impossible for the Fae to repay a debt.  Obligation trumps everything including Pride, in Fae world


Edit:  And fwiw Ive completely lost track of whatever you folks were trying to convey with the boxing metaphor...

[Mith]

I'm thinking that Small Favor was less of a violation because Accord members are expected to be capable of taking care of themselves.  If you don't have the muscle to back up your claim as an Accord member, then you're screwed, period.

That was an Accord violation.  That's was Mab's revenge.  I think it's more that she broke his power base, and made him break his word at the same time, meaning that although he was a cheat before, he is not as influential as he was before.

[Acalanthis]

Okay, I'd forgotten that Mab said that explicitly.  Point conceded.

[The Badger]

Okay, I'd forgotten that Mab said that explicitly.  Point conceded.

That is very gracious.

[ShadowWing]

And note while Nic was 'in' on the plan to snatch up Ivy he never did anything DIRECT to either the capture of Marcone or Ivy, he let Tessa and her faction do that.  He even said as much to Harry more or less implying that this was all Tessa's idea and he was just along for the ride.

The worst Mab could do post the events of Small Favor was declare The Nickleheads no longer Members of the Accords and thusly no longer allowed or entitled to invoke it's rules or it's protections when dealing with other Members, she couldn't take more direct action against him till he cashed in his marker.

Its a good theory that Nic would have never cashed in that chip if he didn't 'suddenly' get the information fed to him about the Vault and how to get past the gates.  Mab played things to insure that the prize was too tempting and in Nic's PoV worth the risk of losing what protection he had from Mab's wrath for a change to get a hold of the grail.

[Arjan]

Because it was a huge amount of energy?  It didn't so much hurt him, but it hit him with a ton of force, that the noose does nothing about.  Bullets don't actually have that much total energy, it's just concentrated.  The noose does nothing to stop the laws of physics from applying to Nic.

Because he added some soulfire.

[Lost Merlin]

And note while Nic was 'in' on the plan to snatch up Ivy he never did anything DIRECT to either the capture of Marcone or Ivy, he let Tessa and her faction do that.  He even said as much to Harry more or less implying that this was all Tessa's idea and he was just along for the ride.

Technically by having Nico kill Deirdre would be retribution towards Tessa as well.