Deirdre's Coin [Possible Spoilers]

[KurtinStGeorge]

I think Nicodemus will thank Harry the next time they meet.  Sort of the way Bianca told Harry he was the inspiration for her gaining power.  Nic will probably tell Harry that he rediscovered how to rely on his own skills and how having an entourage of followers was convenient, but ultimately held him back.  Nic enjoys getting under Harry's skin.  Letting Harry know that he (Nicodemus) hasn't been beaten, that he still in the game, will get under Harry's skin by both pissing Harry off and scare him at the same time.   

[mid_life_crisis]

I suspect Harry, if he took up the coin, would've looked quite similar to Thomas if he did...

Harry should be used to fighting in the buff anyway. 

Murphy would describe him as a stork in a purple mist loincloth.

[Foxed]

I'd picture him wearing purple archmage robes with mist billowing out of him. Just because Hannah fell on the seduction side of Lasciel's talents doesn't mean Harry's Lasciel-form wouldn't represent her arcane knowledge.

[mid_life_crisis]

I think Nicodemus will thank Harry the next time they meet.  Sort of the way Bianca told Harry he was the inspiration for her gaining power.  Nic will probably tell Harry that he rediscovered how to rely on his own skills and how having an entourage of followers was convenient, but ultimately held him back.  Nic enjoys getting under Harry's skin.  Letting Harry know that he (Nicodemus) hasn't been beaten, that he still in the game, will get under Harry's skin by both pissing Harry off and scare him at the same time.   

..and then Harry'd take the damn noose away and snap his neck like a dry twig.  I don't doubt for a second that now that he knows what Anduriel can do, he won't prepare for him.  Harry is willing to kill.  Taking Nic out once and for all would simply be practical.

[Mira]

..and then Harry'd take the damn noose away and snap his neck like a dry twig.  I don't doubt for a second that now that he knows what Anduriel can do, he won't prepare for him.  Harry is willing to kill.  Taking Nic out once and for all would simply be practical.

That's the problem.  Doing that could put the remaining Sword in his care, plus the other relics in danger since he is their caretaker.  So it isn't as simple as that I don't think.

... Huh? Lasciel is identified as female and we spend five books watching her try to get Harry to partner with her.

Lasciel was distinctly female... We don't know the gender of Deidre's Fallen one.

[mid_life_crisis]

That's the problem.  Doing that could put the remaining Sword in his care, plus the other relics in danger since he is their caretaker.  So it isn't as simple as that I don't think.

The sword is only in danger if you use it improperly.  He's done lots of violence while their caretaker before and they were just fine.  He didn't have to become a pacifist to be their caretaker.

Don't know of coins can change genders, so I think Thomas and Eb are safe.

... Huh? Lasciel is identified as female and we spend five books watching her try to get Harry to partner with her.

Lasciel was distinctly female... We don't know the gender of Deidre's Fallen one.

Mira, Foxed is pointing out that Lasciel, a distinctly female Fallen, has been trying to recruit Harry, a distinctly male wizard, for literally years, so there is no question about gender being an issue.  It obviously is not.

[Mira]

Mira, Foxed is pointing out that Lasciel, a distinctly female Fallen, has been trying to recruit Harry, a distinctly male wizard, for literally years, so there is no question about gender being an issue.  It obviously is not.

  I understand that, however would Lasciel have  continued to try to seduce Harry if she was a "he?"  That was my point..  So gender may matter, then again it may not.

The sword is only in danger if you use it improperly.  He's done lots of violence while their caretaker before and they were just fine.  He didn't have to become a pacifist to be their caretaker.

Violence, yes, but violence isn't the issue..  It is about forgiveness.  If Harry killed Nick like Murphy was trying to do when he was begging for mercy, I understand not misusing the Sword per-say, but he'd still be violating the whole reason for the Swords to begin with.  Implying that he may hand it off to someone who would misuse it.. Just that alone might unmake it before it was even given away.

[ebliss1]

The one point to consider is that you can't use the Nic we've seen so far to predict how he will act in the future.

Consider that Nic now is in a much different place. His secret of how the noose can be used against him is out. Anduriel's power has been revealed, and with it, a way to counter one of Nic's biggest advantages. Nic's following has never seen him take it on the chin like that in their lives. Setbacks, yes, but not to that degree. Nic's standing among the supernatural set has taken a huge hit. He no longer has a favor he can call in from Mab. His two biggest Denarian supporters are either dead (Deirdre) or now bitterly opposed to him (Tessa). He has trespassed into the Vault of Hades and could conceivably be on Hades' list of People To Do Bad Things To.

Old Nic had his secrets intact, his followers (mortal and Denarian), his Marker with Mab, and his reputation. New Nic has none of that. He's going to be different now. How he is different, remains to be seen. He could become reckless, fearful, overly cautious, etc. It'll be interesting to see if/how Jim decides to shape Nic going forward.

[frankcesca]

  I understand that, however would Lasciel have  continued to try to seduce Harry if she was a "he?"  That was my point..  So gender may matter, then again it may not.

Pshaw. Everyone knows only women are able to seduce, and it only works on men.

</BIG MASSIVE SARCASM>

[kazimmoinuddin]

 The baby SOI also will help to kick nic when he was down. for centuries, nic acted to destroy knowledge about his order. I am betting the kid inhereted alot from her mother, and her father has soul fire, the warden of demonreach, came into this world a star born and is the winter knight, who helps the knights of the cross. He could be the very worst person to have this information, it was bad enough that he knew the noose was his weakness, now he potentially knows a vast array of similar details, and he has locations where nic can not see into.
 Harry could get the info on to the internet so the whole world could know the truth about the order, once on the internet, it would be near impossible to remove. It seemed to me that soulfire magic are very effective on denarians, want to bet there are alsorts of spell or rituals know to the angels, that need soul fire. Names are important, so are sigils to angels, harry possibly has all of them. Look at what harry did with knowledge about nics shadow powers and places where it did not work.
 What would nic do if harry got deidre's coin and put it in the well, possible any denarian coin? It seems like it is the one prison capable of holding denarians. WHile i hope the whole order gets sealed away, it seems likely that some will, just enough tomake the denarians a lesser threat. The named denairan are the biggest threat as those with out are seemingly just minions.

[Lawgiver]

Harry could get the info on to the internet so the whole world could know the truth about the order, once on the internet, it would be near impossible to remove.

I rather like this part. Sort of similar the WCV getting Stoker to write about the BCV's and all but eradicating them... with a modern twist to it.

And who's to say that Nic's repeated attempts to eradicate knowledge about him has been all that successful? Sure, he's slowed the Church down a time or two, but that's not the only knowledge repository Harry (and others) may have at their disposal...

There is The Archive, after all...

[Sully]

I'm sure the archive already knows plenty, she just can't/doesn't say much.

[Snark Knight]

..and then Harry'd take the damn noose away and snap his neck like a dry twig.  I don't doubt for a second that now that he knows what Anduriel can do, he won't prepare for him.  Harry is willing to kill.  Taking Nic out once and for all would simply be practical.

Frankly, he had a good shot in the vault and he missed it by using the wrong spell.  When Nic was busy fighting Michael and Harry tagged him by surprise with the ice cannonball that broke a couple ribs, he could have done something a lot better - iced him from the neck down like he did to the tongueless goons who disrespected Mab, and set Michael up to take his head off.

I get why it was necessary for Nicodemus to escape for literary reasons, but it's a bit jarring for Harry to jump so sharply between monologing about Hannah's problem being she wasn't prepared enough to be creative with her magic and then missing an easy victory option himself.

[mid_life_crisis]

Frankly, he had a good shot in the vault and he missed it by using the wrong spell.  When Nic was busy fighting Michael and Harry tagged him by surprise with the ice cannonball that broke a couple ribs, he could have done something a lot better - iced him from the neck down like he did to the tongueless goons who disrespected Mab, and set Michael up to take his head off.

I get why it was necessary for Nicodemus to escape for literary reasons, but it's a bit jarring for Harry to jump so sharply between monologing about Hannah's problem being she wasn't prepared enough to be creative with her magic and then missing an easy victory option himself.

The one problem here is that once Nic was helpless, Michael would have started talking to him again, trying to save him.  Harry would have had to do the ice spear trick then run over and grab the noose.  Or the frigidus-forzare combo and then picked up the noose from the Nic chunks.

[frankcesca]

Harry could get the info on to the internet

Are you forgetting that computers in Harry's vicinity, as a rule, go kaboom? Blue Screen of Death? Who'd believe a bunch of assertions without proof, apart from conspiracy-theorists like Butters's crazy friend Gary?