Help starting out...

[Sanctaphrax]

What sort of extra effects does spirit have?

Veils and mental stuff. The extent of the mental stuff is pretty unclear, but the book specifically says that veils are the special province of spirit magic.

My GM has a very generous view of refinement, he believes it grants you 1 element, 2 refinement and 2 specialization.

So he lets you have every bonus instead of choosing one?

That's crazy. No wonder he's worried about magic being overpowered, if he's letting you do that.

Do you think its valid and okay for my character to get the magic climbing axe?

Of course. Every wizard gets a few magical items to use with their spells.

Also control is like, actually casting the spell, right? Sort of like the attack modifier, against their defence? And then power is like weapon damage?

Yes. For attacks, at least.

I managed to put together some aspects, whatcha think?

They look fine to me.

Parkour [-1] - Flavour here. Gain +1 to Athletics rolls when using it to climb or jump over borders, as long as you have a run up.

I'd say that's narrow enough for a +2, personally.

[Periwinkles]

Veils and mental stuff. The extent of the mental stuff is pretty unclear, but the book specifically says that veils are the special province of spirit magic.

So he lets you have every bonus instead of choosing one?

That's crazy. No wonder he's worried about magic being overpowered, if he's letting you do that.

Of course. Every wizard gets a few magical items to use with their spells.

Yes. For attacks, at least.

They look fine to me.

I'd say that's narrow enough for a +2, personally.

Yeah he doesn't want me doing veils For one he thinks it'd be overpowered, secondly he feels it should fall under thaumaturgy. I asked him a couple times if he was sure that was what refinement did and he insisted so I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth so to speak. Especially after the Earth and Spirit nerfs.

So is getting magical items a given? Like, a huge part of being a wizard? Something you just don't deny? I was thinking of a pair of earstuds that granted spirit control and helped put up spirit shields (like Harry's Bracelet) and, well, the climbing pick. Would I need higher resources to purchase them? I sort of thought it would be a case of, well, Alberich procuring them for her.

[Haru]

My GM has a very generous view of refinement, he believes it grants you 1 element, 2 refinement and 2 specialization. I don't mind at all

But the earth element is too powerful? Your GM is weird.

Well, you should be able to adjust the math accordingly, I think.

Do you think its valid and okay for my character to get the magic climbing axe? My GM hasn't responded to my onslaught of messages yet. We do have a faith-based character with a holy sword, so there's that.

Well, first and foremost, it's a regular item that your character has enchanted. Does it make sense for your character to have a climbing axe? I mean there are not that many mountains in Venice, but maybe she goes hiking every other week or so, so it would make sense.

I'm thinking for my rote spells basically a whirling fire tornado blast for offence, force shield and then either another offensive spell, sort of like a kinetic punch/blast or the spirit equivalent of Ventas Servitas, something that can move others and objects and so forth. Also control is like, actually casting the spell, right? Sort of like the attack modifier, against their defence? And then power is like weapon damage?

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42974.msg2084383.html#msg2084383

I managed to put together some aspects, whatcha think?

[snip]

Too much? Too little? Anything else go in there to further balance things out?

Looks good. There should be a lot you can do with that. And if you notice that an aspect doesn't work, just change it around, you are not locked into them forever.

Yeah he doesn't want me doing veils For one he thinks it'd be overpowered, secondly he feels it should fall under thaumaturgy. I asked him a couple times if he was sure that was what refinement did and he insisted so I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth so to speak. Especially after the Earth and Spirit nerfs.

Yeah, that's really weird. Veils are very much doable with spirit evocations, there's a whole section about them in the book, page 276. It literally starts with "Veils are spirit evocations...".

EDIT: One tweak I made to veils is that a veil is dropped if you attack from under it. So you can't attack AND stay invisible. That way, a veil is more like an ambush, which works pretty well.

So is getting magical items a given? Like, a huge part of being a wizard? Something you just don't deny? I was thinking of a pair of earstuds that granted spirit control and helped put up spirit shields (like Harry's Bracelet) and, well, the climbing pick. Would I need higher resources to purchase them? I sort of thought it would be a case of, well, Alberich procuring them for her.

Depends on what you mean by magical items. It's not like in dnd, where you find a magical sword in a dungeon. That's kind of what the holy sword is, in the game that's called an "Item of Power". (There can be IoPs you create yourself, as well, just to be accurate.)

It's more like specialized tools you create yourself. Some wizards create them from scratch, others take something that's already made and imbue it with their magic. That's what focus item slots and enchanted item slots are for. You don't get them for free, you have to pay for them with your refresh.

[Periwinkles]

But the earth element is too powerful? Your GM is weird.

Well, you should be able to adjust the math accordingly, I think.
Well, first and foremost, it's a regular item that your character has enchanted. Does it make sense for your character to have a climbing axe? I mean there are not that many mountains in Venice, but maybe she goes hiking every other week or so, so it would make sense.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,42974.msg2084383.html#msg2084383
Looks good. There should be a lot you can do with that. And if you notice that an aspect doesn't work, just change it around, you are not locked into them forever.
Yeah, that's really weird. Veils are very much doable with spirit evocations, there's a whole section about them in the book, page 276. It literally starts with "Veils are spirit evocations...".

EDIT: One tweak I made to veils is that a veil is dropped if you attack from under it. So you can't attack AND stay invisible. That way, a veil is more like an ambush, which works pretty well.
Depends on what you mean by magical items. It's not like in dnd, where you find a magical sword in a dungeon. That's kind of what the holy sword is, in the game that's called an "Item of Power". (There can be IoPs you create yourself, as well, just to be accurate.)

It's more like specialized tools you create yourself. Some wizards create them from scratch, others take something that's already made and imbue it with their magic. That's what focus item slots and enchanted item slots are for. You don't get them for free, you have to pay for them with your refresh.

Everyone has their little thing I guess, I suppose I can appreciate him not wanting one character to hog all the spotlight. 

Well, I'm worried he might say that because I don't have thaumaturgy, I couldn't have enchanted an item. When I asked about having a blasting rod he did say 'if I let you', the same thing he'd said about Earth element before imposing restrictions upon it.

My logic for the climbing pick would be the fact that she's spent a good deal of time clambering around Venice; the climbing pick would have helped her scale the smoother and harder to climb walls and improve her grip on ledges and such.

I did tell him that I wanted it to be a chameleon or unnoticeability spell, where she could hear footsteps coming towards her and then curl up in a corner and cast the spell before the pursuer approached her, so they'd run right past her as she looks like the background/escapes notice. Or if she's in a tight spot she could put her high athletics to use, run away, go around a corner, curl up, veil. He didn't really seem keen 

[Haru]

I see this type of thing coming from people who have a background in old school games, where you really have to be careful with ovrepowered characters. Fate doesn't break that easily.

Maybe suggest to try it out, that's what I like to do. If something seems unhinged, I will allow for the player to do it, but if it turns out to be wonky, we'll change it. That way, it might be that it "breaks" a scene, but you can just chalk that up as the character being incredibly lucky, and after that you tone things down. If it doesn't break, you can keep using it. Win-win.

Thaumaturgy isn't needed for focus items or enchanted items. Well, at least to me. An enchanted item for evocation could also be something like a family heirloom, something that has great emotional value to the character, and it allows her to focus her energy better. And if that's possible, creating an item itself is just another way to tell the story, it doesn't change anything mechanically.

[Periwinkles]

I see this type of thing coming from people who have a background in old school games, where you really have to be careful with ovrepowered characters. Fate doesn't break that easily.

Maybe suggest to try it out, that's what I like to do. If something seems unhinged, I will allow for the player to do it, but if it turns out to be wonky, we'll change it. That way, it might be that it "breaks" a scene, but you can just chalk that up as the character being incredibly lucky, and after that you tone things down. If it doesn't break, you can keep using it. Win-win.

Thaumaturgy isn't needed for focus items or enchanted items. Well, at least to me. An enchanted item for evocation could also be something like a family heirloom, something that has great emotional value to the character, and it allows her to focus her energy better. And if that's possible, creating an item itself is just another way to tell the story, it doesn't change anything mechanically.

I've just gotten hold of a pdf of the rulebook, and I'm going to print out the few pages on evocation to bring with me. Hopefully these and some convincing will allow me to cast me some veils. Otherwise I might have to switch one of my skills up with stealth. Probably dump contacts, bring alertness down and get +stealth. Or actually do that and get something for physical attacks, like clunking someone over the head with said climbing pick. Hm...or bring athletics down one. With parkour adding athletics I could afford to bring it down. Argh!

Though you've given me a great idea! The climbing pick could have originally been a shortstaff passed on through generations of the von Seckendorf family, but because Alberich is a stubborn and secretive fellow he doesn't tell Lucy, who assuming it's just some old staff sticks a climbing pick-head to it. She'd comment on how Alberich looked like he was going to cry when he saw what she did to it. 

[Sanctaphrax]

I see this type of thing coming from people who have a background in old school games, where you really have to be careful with ovrepowered characters. Fate doesn't break that easily.

That Refinement tweak might manage it, though. I could build a seriously scary Crafter under those rules.

Thaumaturgy isn't needed for focus items or enchanted items. Well, at least to me.

Personally I'd allow foci but not enchanted items. Opinions vary somewhat, but I think it's pretty broadly agreed that evokers should get to do something with their focus slots.

[Haru]

That Refinement tweak might manage it, though. I could build a seriously scary Crafter under those rules.

True, handling Refinement like that can lead to seriously broken builds.

[Periwinkles]

That Refinement tweak might manage it, though. I could build a seriously scary Crafter under those rules.

Personally I'd allow foci but not enchanted items. Opinions vary somewhat, but I think it's pretty broadly agreed that evokers should get to do something with their focus slots.

Crafter?

[Haru]

Crafter?

It's a way to push out a whole lot of power out of a wizard build. You can take specializations for creating enchanted items, increasing their power and the number of uses per session. If done right, that build is by far the most powerful wizard you can get. If you add to that the way your Refinement works, you'll be blowing up whole cities in no time.

Btw., I'd advice against switching to a crafter now, even though it might seem tempting. Just regular magic is complicated enough in the beginning.