biomancy and shapeshifting

[potestas]

what kinds of spells and liimits can be applied. it clearly allows for shapeshifting. So where on the ladder would shifting be and how long does a ritual spell last and where does it start on the time chart.?

[Haru]

I usually baseline thaumaturgy duration at "one scene". If you shift into a bird to fly up a sky scraper, the spell lasts until you are up there. If you turn into a bear to fight, it lasts until the fight is over. I equate that roughly with the 15 minute step on the ladder per default.

When you ask "what kind of spells [...] can be applied?", do you mean how to do a shapeshifting spell? If yes, I would do the usual "5 shifts takeout". It uses the fact that you can do basically anything to a target once you take it out, and you'll need a maximum of 5 shifts to take yourself out, since you won't take consequences if you want to be taken out. And since you used magic, you can now justify having turned yourself into a rabbit.

If you want to have powers to go with that, you can go with the temporary powers rule (YS92). Either spend Fate points to buy the powers or you can gather up materials and use the tag on the aspects as payment for the powers. Though I would be careful as to what to allow for this. Just a bunch of quick discipline maneuvers won't be enough to tag for a rabbit power, but a freshly skinned rabbit might.

[potestas]

I usually baseline thaumaturgy duration at "one scene". If you shift into a bird to fly up a sky scraper, the spell lasts until you are up there. If you turn into a bear to fight, it lasts until the fight is over. I equate that roughly with the 15 minute step on the ladder per default.

When you ask "what kind of spells [...] can be applied?", do you mean how to do a shapeshifting spell? If yes, I would do the usual "5 shifts takeout". It uses the fact that you can do basically anything to a target once you take it out, and you'll need a maximum of 5 shifts to take yourself out, since you won't take consequences if you want to be taken out. And since you used magic, you can now justify having turned yourself into a rabbit.

If you want to have powers to go with that, you can go with the temporary powers rule (YS92). Either spend Fate points to buy the powers or you can gather up materials and use the tag on the aspects as payment for the powers. Though I would be careful as to what to allow for this. Just a bunch of quick discipline maneuvers won't be enough to tag for a rabbit power, but a freshly skinned rabbit might.

i was thinking along the nature of disguises and mundain animals with no real powers maybe just a some skill swaping

[Haru]

Well, the 5 shift ritual still stands, it's the catalyst for the transformation. Powers are just bonuses you can tag on.

A skill shuffle would be one of those. It's part of the "beast form" power, so I would charge you a Fate point or a Fate point equivalent for it. If you just want to change form without changing anything else, the ritual should be more than enough.

[Hick Jr]

If you want to use biomancy to shapeshift, it's probably a better idea to just take True Shapeshifting and Modular Abilities and flavor it as biomancy.

[PatchR]

If you want to use biomancy to shapeshift, it's probably a better idea to just take True Shapeshifting and Modular Abilities and flavor it as biomancy.

[Cadd]

If shapeshifting is going to be a regular feature of your biomancy, then it's probably a good idea to grab those, yes.

If it's only going to be a once-in-a-while thing, something that takes a bit of work, just go the way of a ritual.
The math of it will add up to something like:
5+ shifts for taken out
3 shifts or a FP per refresh worth of powers picked up (per Temporary Powers a tag can be considered equivalent to a FP, creating an aspect w Thaumaturgy is generally 3 shifts)

So turn into a bird:
5 shifts base
9 shifts for 3 aspects to "pay" for [-1] Wings, [-1] Diminutive Size and [-1] Beast Change (for the skill shuffle)
Aspects probably related to air, the specific kind of bird you're turning into, flying, etc.

Total shift cost: 14.

[PirateJack]

If shapeshifting is going to be a regular feature of your biomancy, then it's probably a good idea to grab those, yes.

If it's only going to be a once-in-a-while thing, something that takes a bit of work, just go the way of a ritual.
The math of it will add up to something like:
5+ shifts for taken out
3 shifts or a FP per refresh worth of powers picked up (per Temporary Powers a tag can be considered equivalent to a FP, creating an aspect w Thaumaturgy is generally 3 shifts)

So turn into a bird:
5 shifts base
9 shifts for 3 aspects to "pay" for [-1] Wings, [-1] Diminutive Size and [-1] Beast Change (for the skill shuffle)
Aspects probably related to air, the specific kind of bird you're turning into, flying, etc.

Total shift cost: 14.

I like this method of creating powers through ritual magic.

[kurtpotts]

How would you guys do an enchanted item that allows a specific animal form?

Say a lucky rabbit's foot that turns you into a rabbit for a scene.

[dragoonbuster]

How would you guys do an enchanted item that allows a specific animal form?

Say a lucky rabbit's foot that turns you into a rabbit for a scene.

If you're not looking for any specific powers? I'd just say it needs to have enough strength to cover a Transformation take-out, and then have the take-out condition be the application of an aspect like [Form Of: Rabbit!] on them during the duration.

If you're looking for a skill shuffle via Beast Change and/or additional powers, I am partial to the 3 shifts of complexity per 1 refresh formula. Of course, that's going to get expensive quickly when you're talking about enchanted items. I actually think the idea of a magic transformation item fits better as a potion--plus then you can put FPs and take compels against it to boost the power up as you please; I would forgo the 3 for 1 in that case and allow one power per FP/compel per the Temporary Powers rules that Cadd mentioned earlier in the thread.

Another option that may or may not work in your specific situation is forgetting it as an enchanted item and make it an IoP similar to a hexenwulf's belt.

[Taran]

A potion is a good idea.

I think, what you want to do is this:  why are you turning into a rabbit?

Is it to sneak?  Then your potion is a Sneak skill replacement.

Is it to run away really fast?  Athletics replacement.

Is it to overhear someone because rabbits have super sensitive ears?  Investigate skill replancement/maneuver.

If you want all these things at once in a shiny little package, you should make an IoP and call it an enchanted item:

-1 or 2 IoP
+1 Small
+1 Human Form
-1 Beast change
-1 Diminuitive size
-1 or 2 depending on the power.  Maybe supernatural sense/echoes of the beast or inhuman speed