what can you do with earth magic

[Dougansf]

i was thinking holding people in the air, kind of makes super strnegth worthless,

This is one of my PC's rote spells, just for that reason.  Inspired by how the Archive dealt with Magog.

[Melendwyr]

Between gravitational and magnetic force, you can do a lot with projectiles.  It's not quite as flexible as pure force effects, but it's close.

[potestas]

Between gravitational and magnetic force, you can do a lot with projectiles.  It's not quite as flexible as pure force effects, but it's close.

what makes it better is how it can bypass immunities. Magic immune no problem  40 foot hole from no where . Need some iron to take down tiny no problem every nail in the are pulled from area and hurled into his large ass I thinkni like it best

[gojj]

what makes it better is how it can bypass immunities. Magic immune no problem  40 foot hole from no where . Need some iron to take down tiny no problem every nail in the are pulled from area and hurled into his large ass I thinkni like it best

Eh, if something is immune to magic I think it is just immune to magic. You can flavor it however you want, but it still boils down to you using magic to attack something that is by nature immune to such energies. Fire magic dissipates moments before impact, the flung nails seem to curve around them, and the hole appears all around them except for a peninsula they can walk on.

[Haru]

Eh, if something is immune to magic I think it is just immune to magic. You can flavor it however you want, but it still boils down to you using magic to attack something that is by nature immune to such energies. Fire magic dissipates moments before impact, the flung nails seem to curve around them, and the hole appears all around them except for a peninsula they can walk on.

That's how I'd interpret it as well. Harry vs. the Ogre in SK is a good example of this.

[Yosepi]

Another example that says an object shot with magic would bypass magic immunity is the

(click to show/hide)

fight in SG where Harry creates an ice ball and uses forzare to increase its force/speed to hit the geno-whats-it, who grounds out magic. A direct blast to freeze him did nothing, a ice ball sent flying faster then a high speed car knocked the wind out of him

[MijRai]

If I remember right, didn't Harry still use magic to light the Sterno that burned up Talos the fake-ogre?  By your interpretation, that would no longer work.  Or, the example of the Raith Deeps in Blood Rites; Harry flings his keys at Papa Raith's face with earth magic, and even with his anti-magic powers, it hits him and messes his face up good.  So, the nails of the situation (keys, technically) still hit the target just fine. 

[solbergb]

Eh, if something is immune to magic I think it is just immune to magic. You can flavor it however you want, but it still boils down to you using magic to attack something that is by nature immune to such energies.

The Dresden books don't support that assertion.  The prior two posts gave good examples of why.  In the case of the keys, even if the magic dissipates the keys still have plenty of energy.  Although in the Raith fight, the control over the keys did NOT dissipate, indicating that it mattered whether the energy was directed against Raith, not mere proximity.  It's likely the same reason the death curse that neutered him worked.  The curse prevented life force from approaching him via feeding, but as it didn't target him, it wasn't affected by his immunity.

Another example is in the Scarecrow fight at Arctus Tor.  Dresden blew out the ground beneath it and it was flung into the air.  Making the ground explode by filling it with energy was the magic part.  The explosion itself was mundane, and the protection didn't help.

Now all that said, it may depend on why you are magic immune.  Some flavors of this might behave more like a D&D anti-magic field, and somebody who's immune because magic goes haywire around them might screw up targeting of something like the keys (but not something like a rock tossed with telekenesis and released from control while out of range of the "haywire" effect).

[Sanctaphrax]

It depends on how The Catch is worded. There's no such thing as "standard" magic immunity.

[solbergb]

Actually, Our World and Your Story are quite clear on this point.  Standard magic immunity catch is "immune to mortal magic, not mundane sources of harm", also phrased as "immune only to mortal magic". It's consistent with every character that's demonstrated it in the books, and for that matter, ways of bypassing it, regardless of source, are also consistent in the Dresden Files stories.  This is how it is represented in this game, there is no "extra" weakness.

This is by the way, worth a +5 catch - both Madrigal and Lord Talos have magic immunity via magic items, and get a +1 for the item, +5 for the catch cost break on physical immunity.  Real Ogres just get the immunity straight up, it costs them only 3 refresh and it has no weaknesses beyond "it isn't mortal magic".

What that catch seems to mean is NOT "all spells fail near you if they cause anything bad to happen, directly or indirectly".  It means based on the books "you can not target them with magical energy and have it work, regardless of the shifts you generate.  Anything around them, however, is fair game".   Another way of thinking about it might be that you can't make a magical connection to them...not with a focus (hair, blood, etc) nor with line of sight a;though that causes issues with the famous Maggie death curse.  So I like the former definition better.

Maggie bypassed the catch by using a blood connection to Raith (Harry and Thomas) and explicitly wording the spell so that Lord Raith wasn't the target, but instead the life energies of those he interacted with were the target.  Which in a RPG would probably be rules lawyering, but Maggie's player clearly was that kind of person

[Sanctaphrax]

But "immunity to magic" isn't actually a Power. It's a particular way to set up the Catch on a Physical Immunity Power. And The Catch is freeform.

You absolutely can set up your physical immunity to magic so that it stops indirect magical attacks. Might not even affect the cost of the Power, since the rules for costing The Catch are kinda wonky.

[solbergb]

I'm pretty sure we're expected to use "Catch = Immune to Mortal Magic" as the baseline for anything in the books where Dresden encountered something he couldn't affect directly, since every single monster in "our world" with that power has it written the same way, as do all the other examples of "immune to everything but XXX".

"Immune to mortal magic and anything mortal magic has affected" is more what you're shooting for, and that's not going to get the +5 catch.   It won't put you down in the +2 range of most ghosts for physical immunity, but it's probably more like +3.  We've also got pretty much no canon examples of such a thing, so whatever your high concept is, it has to be something new under the sun.   I mean you can also write "immune to white court vampires" in the catch, including anything direct or indirect they might do, but I see that failing in character creation phase - your other table members aren't likely to buy your reasoning.

[Kintotech]

I've also justified Earth magic as a base for certain types of lightning spells in the past as well (Or, inversely, discussed using it to ground lightning spells).

[Sanctaphrax]

...every single monster in "our world" with that power has it written the same way,

Actually, that's not the case. The Grendelkin might be vulnerable to magic other than fire magic, and Ogres might be immune to non-mortal magic as well. The book mentions that both are uncertain.

"Immune to mortal magic and anything mortal magic has affected" is more what you're shooting for, and that's not going to get the +5 catch.   It won't put you down in the +2 range of most ghosts for physical immunity, but it's probably more like +3.  We've also got pretty much no canon examples of such a thing, so whatever your high concept is, it has to be something new under the sun.

Actually, Outsiders probably have something like that. Or maybe something broader. But it's pretty clear that just channelling your magic through a rock won't do much good against them.

We also have examples of people who are really good at counterspelling. It wouldn't be a stretch at all for a counterspeller to cancel a key-launching spell as easily as a fireball.

As for the wording and the costing, the game mostly leaves those up to the player and the GM. Sensible people generally don't use The Catch exactly as written, though.

I mean you can also write "immune to white court vampires" in the catch, including anything direct or indirect they might do, but I see that failing in character creation phase - your other table members aren't likely to buy your reasoning.

I'd allow that. As for a justification...you are a friend to the demons that inhabit WCVs, and they won't let their hosts hurt you. Or maybe some god has placed a particular protection upon you.

The cost would depend on the game, though. In some games that's super awesome, in some it's very minor.

[vultur]

Earth block (defensive) - sudden gravity pulse makes attacks miss you as the attacker or weapon is pulled out of position. Intense magnetic force repels things (even living things - the same way you can levitate a frog with a strong enough magnetic field).

Earth block (offensive) - intense gravity sticks opponent to the ground. The soil (or a metal, stone or brick floor) swallows the opponent up to his knees, making him unable to move.

Earth attack  - lightning bolt, chain lightning for a spray attack, exploding ball lightning for a zone-wide attack (electromagnetism); crushing gravity; hurl metal, stone, glass, or ceramic objects at the opponent

Earth maneuver - apply a "Magnetized" aspect to boost your next earth spell on that target. Use gravity or magic to apply a "slowed down/held in place/impeded" type aspect. Tear up the terrain or buildings (sheetrock, brick, concrete, metal, glass all come from the earth) to apply scene aspects. Etc.