Conjuring Concept/Questions

[Midas]

Long time fan of the books, started playing DFRPG a few months ago. Currently our group is on hiatus and I am trying to prepare a new concept based around conjuring.

I want to create a character with the ability to conjure items out of ectoplasm (I realize that YS give a downside to it, but that is supposed to act as the balance) at Evocation speeds. The character concept is geared towards dealing with non-spell slinging monsters and mobsters. In the game we are getting ready to play, this could come in handy as well as provide the GM with juicy opportunities to screw with the character (counter spell).

I am assuming that this is possible with Evothaum, but I was wondering if it is possible to do without a Sponsor?

i.e. prepared Thaum foci for a specific purpose like conjure item (sword, armor, javelin, giant q-tip,etc.)

Any advice would be great.

Also, if my dude's talent is with manipulating ectoplasm instead of slinging elements, is it possible to make wards that conjure defenses (think…giant boulder from Indiana Jones made out of that wonderful ooze)

**Our group is really big on form rather than function. Our GM would rather have an interesting concept that has major weaknesses to be exploited, over a 2D powerhouse.

Thank you

[Haru]

Well, you could take regular evocation and simply have the conjuring bit be flavor. So where others throw a fireball, you conjure a sword, slice your opponent with it and it dissolves right after. Where Harry throws up a shield made of hardened air, you conjure a boulder right in front of you to deflect the bullets flying at you. Mechanically, there doesn't have to be a difference at all. It doesn't have to be much more complex than this, if you don't want it to be.

The downside could be that since your magic is constantly ripping things from the nevernever, it is weakening the border between the worlds. Things could be following your character around, waiting for an opening. Or beings are simply dragged along when you rip things through the veil between the world. Like the fire-salamander that clings to the boulder.

If you want to conjure more substantial objects. Evothaum is probably the way to go. We've got quite a few "self sponsored magic" options in the resource section, and if conjuring is not among them, I'm sure we can throw one together. They are basically used to represent a high level of specialization by a wizard, but they require evocation and thaumaturgy to be taken.

You could go for greater glamors as well. The things you create there are as real as it gets and should be enough to deal with a lot of beings. Problem is, that they don't require any casting stress, which might make them a bit too powerful when used in this manner.

[wyvern]

I'd definitely look into Greater Glamours & Breath Weapon.

Also note that a Sponsored Magic doesn't necessarily have to have a 'real' sponsor; examples to the contrary being Kemmlerian Necromancy, as well as Ley-Line sponsored magic.  Of course, if you're going to actually take any sponsor debt, you need to work out with your GM how that's going to come back to haunt you...

[solbergb]

You could also take the approach that you conjure the items at the usual speed and carry them around, but your evocation is more effective when it operates on objects you conjure yourself (backed by stunts or similar).   A low resources character could pretty easily get a lot of basic gear that is normally illegal/unavailable this way.  A character with scholarship, crafting and the demolitions stunt could probably conjure actual explosives, which might be kind of interesting on some kinds of characters.

Objects conjured with Soulfire have obvious catch advantages too, although that falls under evothaum.

[Haru]

To add a bit more in terms of story, how about adding the demesne power for good measure? The character has bought or won or stolen or cheated a patch of land in the nevernever that he has full control over. It's set up to be his workshop, where he can create fantastic things. Once created, he can conjure them into the real world and use them. Mainly, this would be a version of a bag of holding, a large place where the character can draw a lot of items from. He's got a lot of tools and weapons ready to grab, without carrying them on his body, where they could be detected. I think this could be done by going for a sort of modular abilities sort of power, only for items. Maybe a -1 addition to demesne, and it allows you to use an action to switch out an item against one that's stored in the nevernever.

So that would be:
Demesne [-2]
 Unlimited Access [-1]

It would remove all the hassle of actually conjuring and using magic rules. Plus having a place in the nevernever is bound to come with all kinds of trouble.

[Midas]

You could also take the approach that you conjure the items at the usual speed and carry them around, but your evocation is more effective when it operates on objects you conjure yourself (backed by stunts or similar).   A low resources character could pretty easily get a lot of basic gear that is normally illegal/unavailable this way.

You could, but on YS275, it talks about how if you are going to carry a conjured weapon (or explosive) past sunrise it needs extra power. I interpret a character bothering with conjured weapons, that can be counter spelled, would be using that ability to be able to have weapons available in places that would not allow such stuff (airports, federal buildings, etc.) or to surprise a spell-slinger who thinks he is unarmed.

[Midas]

That is an interesting idea Haru. The trouble that could happen is pretty great

 Tris reaches into his demesne to pull out another javelin to throw at the (insert baddie here). Suddenly a dark stream of ink (Myrk) starts pouring out and surrounding him. In a panic he forgets to close his domain and Hobs start surrounding him.

*Edit: YS170 says that demesne is meant for spirits. Is it a general accepted modification of the rule or your house rule that allows mortals to have one?

[Haru]

*Edit: YS170 says that demesne is meant for spirits. Is it a general accepted modification of the rule or your house rule that allows mortals to have one?

The power fits what the character is supposed to be able to do, so why not use it? It's my general approach to the rules.

[solbergb]

You could, but on YS275, it talks about how if you are going to carry a conjured weapon (or explosive) past sunrise it needs extra power.

And this is a problem how?  An extra two shifts on the base spell so it can survive sunrise instead of just lasting all day.  You'd have to spend time doing maintenance on your objects each day, and yeah sure sometimes they get dispelled but most critters don't actually HAVE a dispel magic option and you can always carry a real item just in case.

Anyone taking this approach will have a high degree of tolerance to spending an hour or so every day and evening refreshing spells on most days, and they'll last long enough that on a hectic day he or she can just let them get stale if there isn't time.

[Quantus]

This reminds me of an alchemist character I had in an old Play-by-Post RP I was in back before the RPG rules.  He had a process to preserve raw ectoplasm in the mortal world, and would carry it around and use it at need to create random objects.  The general idea was that he had a limited amount of supplemental mass he could carry around, at a set ratio of creation.  So to conjure 30 lbs of whatever required 30 lbs of ectoplasm (or 15 if 2:1, etc) and denser objects take more (Not really an issue for that character who also ha a Bag of Holding equivalent).  In this way it added character versatility without allowing for infinite creation within combat. 

Limiting factors can be anything from concentration-based fragility akin to how the Green Lantern needs concentrate to maintain the integrety of his construct, to Circle Traps like any summoner, to Sunrises.  Sunrises would be a particularly fun but entirely story driven limit;  Active objects might be destroyed if not protected and/or any reservoir might loose some or even all of their supply. 

At the other end of the spectrum you could have foci for very specific conjured items.  The most obvious would be a Gun enchanted as a foci to create it's own infinite ammunition.  Eventually this could be augmented to fire different ammo types (Iron, Tracer rounds, etc) on the fly. 

[Taran]

*Edit: YS170 says that demesne is meant for spirits. Is it a general accepted modification of the rule or your house rule that allows mortals to have one?

IMO, anyone who has carved out a little piece of Nevernever for themselves can have their own demesne.  The trick is accessing it wherever you are.  Most creatures can only cross over in places that are in tune with their nature.

So, unless you have worldwalking/swift transition, thaumaturgy, you may not be able to have access to that pocket of Nevernever since it's going to only be accessible in places in tune with it.

Of course, you could argue that since it's innately in tune with the character (it's their demesne afterall) they can access it wherever they are...

[solbergb]

I'd say using a demesne works a lot better as a kind of lab space than as a bag of holding, barring some other powers (such as worldwalker perhaps, but I'm not sure that's quite right).   Stuff in the nevernever is where it is...it moves slowly as the things it's anchored to in the mortal world change but it's nowhere near as mobile as a mortal running around a city.

[Taran]

My point is more this:

The demesne is stationary.  Your access to it is mobile.

[Haru]

My point is more this:

The demesne is stationary.  Your access to it is mobile.

Yes, that's what my "Unlimited Access" upgrade was supposed to accomplish. Allow you to access it anywhere you are and retrieve objects from it.

7th Sea had a form of magic called Porte, which was kind of similar, allowing you to grab things from anywhere in the world through a sort of demonic dimension.

[Radecliffe]

I'm reminded of the Scorpion talisman from Storm Front.  If you could use enchanted item slots to create various talismans you could carry on your person (a charm bracelet perhaps?)  Then you just trigger the talisman to conjure the object.  If you are looking for a Sponsored solution there is always Soulfire.