Houserule proposal: first Rote spells in scene give no default stress

[JGray]

  You are either a liar or you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

Uncool, dude.
 
As for the rules not quite simulating the books? You're right. No game EVER perfectly simulates the source material. Jim Butcher doesn't have to follow game theory or worry about game balance when writing.

[Mr. Death]

Actually, that there are distinct scenes within a long fight scene is exactly how one of the game's writers said those long fight scenes worked, mechanically.

Also, the accusations are really uncalled for.

[Taran]

You are either a liar or you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

Etiquette.

[Melendwyr]

Etiquette.

  All right, Taran.  What's the polite way of saying that a person is either a liar or doesn't know what he's talking about?

Please refer to the "Book of Don't" if you unaware of how to have polite conversation.  You are a fairly new forum member, and may not be used to courtesy being a vital part of conversation, but you are being warned that violations of the precepts have consequences.  ~ Blaze as Mod.

[Mr. Death]

  All right, Taran.  What's the polite way of saying that a person is either a liar or doesn't know what he's talking about?

Not calling them a liar or an idiot.

You are taking this discussion too seriously, and forgetting that not every single detail in either the mechanics or the flavor is reflected in both. The fight with Vitto and Madrigal and the fight with the ghouls are two distinct scenes. There's a chapter break and everything.

The game is not a hard-nosed, exacting simulation of every detail of the series. It is a game, meant to reflect the feel of the books as close as possible while being playable and fair.

[Melendwyr]

Not calling them a liar or an idiot.

  If we don't call spades spades, then we'll slowly be inundated with liars and idiots, won't we?

The fight with Vitto and Madrigal and the fight with the ghouls are two distinct scenes. There's a chapter break and everything.

  There's no 'chapter break' in the action, no period where Harry can compose himself.  It's all one long conflict.  The fact that it occurs across chapters is totally irrelevant - the break doesn't exist within the story, it's an artifact of the story being written out in novel form with a particular structure.  The spells Harry casts before the battle aren't part of the analysis, because there's a period of speechmaking and talking that would obviously provide a chance to catch one's mental and physical breath.  No such period occurs within the battle.

Just a little while ago we had people discussing a proposed rule that would let people clear their stress tracks in the middle of a conflict, and it was rejected with the reasoning that only one published ability permits that, and it's the Blood Drinker feature  A Taste of Death - which requires completely draining a human being.  It also banishes a mild consequence, admittedly.

Arbitrarily declaring that there are sustained pauses in the middle of a massive battle is worse than that proposed rule.

The game is not a hard-nosed, exacting simulation of every detail of the series. It is a game, meant to reflect the feel of the books as close as possible while being playable and fair.

The rules do not permit us to enact the most dramatic sections of the stories!  These are not minor trivial details.  By these rules, Harry Dresden would have taken himself out with stress and lost the major conflicts in each novel.  How does that reflect the feel of the books?

For that matter, what's supposed to be playable and fair about limiting players to so few spells?  I don't see much interesting about rendering your character unconscious, or worse, because you cast a minor spell multiple times.  It's not a part of the stories at all.

[Mr. Death]

  If we don't call spades spades, then we'll slowly be inundated with liars and idiots, won't we?

Okay, seriously. This is straight up against the rules. You're probably already being reported to a mod over it.

Once again: You are taking things too literally and too seriously. Chill out, and accept that the game is not ironclad, because it isn't. It's built to not be ironclad. There is a ton of room for player and GM discretion, which is all in the name of having a good time. Not constraining everything because you seem to have an extremely strict view of the rules.

[Sanctaphrax]

If we don't call spades spades, then we'll slowly be inundated with liars and idiots, won't we?

You know, in a hypothetical alternate universe where Haru was actually a liar or an idiot, I'd be more or less okay with him being called that. But we don't live in that universe. And even if we did, it wouldn't be my opinion that mattered.

So you're clearly out of line here. If you have opinions about how the forums should be run, you can tell them to the people who run this place.

As for the actual thread topic...I haven't read White Night in a long long time. So I really can't comment. But I'll reiterate what I said before: if you want to increase spellcasting capacity, go ahead. Just make sure people pay for it, because spellcasting is powerful enough.

[gojj]

Look Melendwyr, you proposed a potential houserule (house-rule? house rule?), multiple experienced players have agreed that it is not a good idea, explained why, and offered alternatives using existing in-game mechanics that result on the same effect, but do not add more power to an already powerful class of player characters. You can take their advice, or ignore it and use the house rule in your games anyway (as long as the other players in your game agree to it). You don't need anyone's blessing as long as your group agrees to it, but I would take heed of universally given advice as it is usually universally given for a reason. There is no need for name calling or posturing.

Anyway I too agree that spellcasters do not need any buffs. Also, not everything that happens in the novels can be represented by game mechanics.

[Mickey Finn]

 If we don't call spades spades, then we'll slowly be inundated with liars and idiots, won't we?

You want to rephrase that in a way that's not being insulting?
Warning One.

[Jreafman]

So.. I am one of those people who highly believes in research and fact checking for everything. That being said...

White Night (hardback) pages 339 through 342 (chapter 39). It's kind of a grey area. See, the fight is still going on all around Dresden and his little group, at the beginning of the chapter you even see Murphy doing stuff. Harry, on the other hand, just opens the way to the NeverNever, then talks to Marcone a bit. Did he have time to curl up and take a nap? No. Grab himself a coke and some crackers? No. Stop and catch his breath while the White Court did the heavy lifting for a minute? Absolutely. If I were GMing a battle this intense, I'd totally take that few minutes where they stopped and planned as a scene break, clear stress tracks, and let them go back to work since, during that time, the ghouls were focused on the vamps. No one was actively attacking Harry and several members of his group. They were standing around talking.

Now, this doesn't actually clear up the question... does the houserule as the OP stated it out sound good? To me, not really. Personally... I actually REALLY like the way it happened in White Night.

I'd rather put a minor scene break into a major fight like that, a quick few moments where they can gather their thoughts, catch their breath, and move on. But that's just the way I'd handle it.

[blackstaff67]

Rather than post a link to my most recent rambling, I'll depart from tradition and repeat myself: JB wasn't writing the books with a game in mind; I'm rather certain he was writing them to tell an interesting story when the fine folks at Evil Hat finally got hold of him with a business proposition...the rest is history and the book is only up to date until Small Favor.  Ease up, it's only a game.  People more erudite than myself regarding both books and game mechanics have already given the best advice they can (especially given the games admitted gray areas); at the end of the day, it's your table. 

[Mickey Finn]

One thing to remember...Jim and Fred go way back. So while Jim wasn't writing with a game in mind, I'm guessing (key word there...please don't assume I know Fred or Jim's mind, I'vemet Fred in person once and see Jim infrequently and fleetingly) Fred runs mechanisms by Jim enough...even pre-DresdenRPG ... that some of that percolates through. And Jim's a gamer in his own right.
I've noticed that gamers tend to devise rules for their fantasy that lend themselves to being able to play them in a tabletop game. Brust. Sanderson.* Jim. This doesn't detract, mind, from the "author wrote it as a story, not a game" argument, but rather augments it. All the solid authors write for the story, not the game potential (RPG-inspired tie ins excepted, of course).

*Hell, Mistborn and Stormlight series have magic rules that scream video RPG, let alone tabletop.

[Melendwyr]

Rather than post a link to my most recent rambling, I'll depart from tradition and repeat myself: JB wasn't writing the books with a game in mind;

This is a perfectly true point.  It is also COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT as an argument in this context.  The issue is not whether any game can perfectly emulate whatever Jim Butcher has written or may eventually write.

Since it seems that this needs to be explicitly laid out, the issues here are as follows:

1)  The DFRPG rules do not permit certain kinds of dramatic scenes; specifically, extended combats with frequent use of magic, or any situation in which many spells are used in a short period of time.
2)  This is undesirable for anyone who might want to use this system for a game in which such scenes are possible.
3)  This also means that the rules don't properly represent one aspect of the flavor of their source material.
4)  The relative de-emphasis on rigid mechanics in FATE generally, and this game in specifically, does not excuse poor mechanics where they do exist.
5)  Trying to force the source material to conform to the limitations of this game's mechanics is inappropriate.

[JGray]

I'm not sure this is entirely true. Granted, I have not tried to emulate the scene in question but one assumes Harry has a mental stress track of four and likely has at least one extra mild mental consequence.

That is, by my count, a chance to cast eight spells in a single combat. Can we perfectly duplicate that specific combat scene? Maybe not. But there's anecdotal evidence based on the number of people satisfied by the magic system in this thread that the magic rules DO allow for plenty of epic spell fu.

That said, you are free to house rule or adapt different rules to your setting. I am unsure of why this is a trigger issue for you. Go with what is right for YOUR game. If other people don't agree that's no big deal. Gaming, like any art, is subjective and based on individual experience.