Golem and lightsabers

[Exkramental]

wanted to make this jew/cabalist using golems pets of all kind, what i would like to know is this, how do you calculate Golem refresses in shifts when making its stats.

and on another note, with ritual magic, would it not be kinda easy to make OP magic weapons/armor/gadgets?, say i wanted to make a Lightsaber, even if it takes 30-40 shifts for duration and power, its not a itemslot, or am i wrong

[Locnil]

Sanctaphrax created some summoning houserules here which can also be used for outright creation of supernatural beings. As long as you don't deliberately try to abuse it - like creating minions who create more powerful minions and so on - they should work fine.

Depends on how you rule thaumaturgic enchanting works. There's no hard rules for using rituals to give armor or weapon ratings, or enhancing skills or giving other powers to weapons. So you're pretty much stuck with enchanted items for magic weapons, armour, and other gadgets. which while a powerful option is still somehow balanced.

[Belial666]

1) The go-to magic for giving general powers is Transformation/Disruption. Take someone out with it and declare the takeout result to be an alteration of their nature. Add more power to the spell for duration and/or resistance to dispelling. Doing it to an item and declaring the item gives powers to whoever uses it is basically the same thing, with only minor changes. Making an item be an artifact merely requires you add Physical Immunity on top of whatever other powers you give it so it becomes indestructible.

2) Yes, it's THAT easy to give someone powers. Just take them out and transform them or give them an item. A magical pact, a bit of soul-stitching, a strong enough curse. Hell, even an inexperienced Harry Dresden in Fool Moon was pretty sure he could manage those magical belts. BUT, that kind of thing has costs beyond the magic for it;

3) Granting someone powers has a cost - either through an item or through direct alteration, they must spend Refresh on them. If someone picks up a magic item or is altered into something they don't have enough refresh for, tough luck; they become NPCs as their refresh goes to the negatives. That's exactly what happened to MacFinn when that curse turned him into a Loup Garou or those FBI agents when the belts turned them into werewolves.

4) Altering someone's nature directly, especially against their will, bears an additional cost; it breaks the 2nd Law of Magic: You Shall Not Transform Another.


To sum up, giving someone powers or making magic items is easy but costly.

[Belial666]

1) To make a golem, there are several ways. The easiest is to summon ectoplasmic matter and have it powered by a spirit of the Nevernever. The hardest is to make a body of real, natural material and make a spell construct moving around the body like a puppet, guided by a magical A.I.


2) The easy golems are basically summoning;
A: Get a being's Name or other sympathetic link so you can work magic on it.
B: Put enough shifts into your ritual to mentally take it out and force it under your control. That's the control part of the spell.
C: Put enough shifts into your ritual to bring it from the Nevernever to the world. That's the calling part of the spell and is usually a bit easier than control.
D: Cast your spell and simply declare that your new servant appears.

2b) Summoning is costly so it could also be done in three separate spells;
A: Get a being's Name or other sympathetic link so you can work magic on it.
B: Cast a binding (a Ward turned inwards) strong enough to hold your intended target.
C: Cast a calling ritual to have the creature appear inside the binding.
D: While the creature is still inside the binding, cast the control spell on it.
While this version requires three spells, it allows you to summon bigger things because you break up the total shifts of the calling + control into two separate spells, each half as big as the single spell needed to do it all at once.

[Wordmaker]

Good advice on the golems.

As for the lightsaber? Enchanted item slot or an Item of Power. You could work from Warden Swords or the Swords of the Cross as a baseline for abilities and costs.

[Exkramental]

so a item and/or  self-magic buffs, say a magic tattoo that grants me a permanent shield, say i have unlimited shifts. does a action like that fall under the normal refresh for Thaumaturgy. or would i need to add more refresh,

Also thanks for the help with Golems

[Wordmaker]

An item that grants a shield is an Enchanted Item, but for it to give you a permanent shield, and not have a limited amount of charges, you'd need to go for an Item of Power that granted either Toughness powers, or a custom Shield power.

[Locnil]

so a item and/or  self-magic buffs, say a magic tattoo that grants me a permanent shield, say i have unlimited shifts. does a action like that fall under the normal refresh for Thaumaturgy. or would i need to add more refresh,

Also thanks for the help with Golems

Permanent duration spells aren't possible under the current system, though 12 shifts of duration (a mortal lifetime) might be good enough. And yes, RAW, you can make an infinite number of Declarations, effectively giving you unlimited shifts, so long as you're willing to keep rolling. You don't need anything more than Thaumaturgy either.This is probably the most houseruled thing in the game.

[Wordmaker]

Probably something to run by your GM, first, though. In my games, I'd be wary of allowing an armour spell to last a mortal lifetime. A single point of permanent armour against all physical attacks is probably worth about 1 point of Refresh, so it would be a significant mechanical advantage.

[Haru]

I think if the golem is supposed to be an integral part of the character, I would either see if another player would like to play it, or I would put it on the character sheet of the summoner. The summoner and the golem would then be, mechanically, one singular entity. It may seem weird at first, but it should work rather nicely.

The golem could look something like this:

Item of Power (Golem)
 Rebate [+2]
 Inhuman Strength [-2]
 Inhuman Toughness [-2]

And more powers, if you like. The golem and the summoner would act as one character, and the distinction would just be in the narrative.

If you like, you can add "Beast change" and "Human Form", to give you a different set of skills, depending on which of the two is the main actor right now. Though a variant on the "Mimic" rules to give you an additional high skill for the golem should work as well.

[Wordmaker]

That's a very cool way to handle it 

[Locnil]

Though in that case its a suit of power armour, not a golem.

[Haru]

Though in that case its a suit of power armour, not a golem.

Not at all, why should it? My item of power can take pretty much any form desire, and in this case, I choose it to be a golem that walks next to me. I just like to get away from the idea that because you are playing a character concept that involves a "pet" of some sort, that you automatically have to have 2 separate characters, mechanically speaking. Especially in a system like Fate, you can deal with a situation like this much more fluid.

[Wordmaker]

The question is, when someone attacks the golem and inflicts consequences, it's your character, not the golem, who has to deal with them.

Say your golem takes the Moderate Consequence "Cracked Head", well in the next scene, your character's the one who has to deal with it. Plus there's the matter of skills. You take Fists as Superb because your golem should be able to fight, but what happens if your character gets into a fight when the golem isn't around?

[Haru]

Like I said, you can take a skill swap power to switch between powers or attach a mimic like power to the golem to give him high fists.

The consequences are for the unit "sorcerer plus golem". If the golem isn't there, that might be an excuse to not allow anyone to invoke the consequence. But if the golem is an integral part of the character concept, more often than not, it is going to be there.

And if the golem isn't there, that's easily done with a compel. That can include to forbid you to use you might skill at its highest value.

If the golem is only supposed to be there occasionally, a skill replacement ritual should do the trick. Say you want to break open a steel door. You make a ritual that replaces the might roll needed to get through. But instead of targeting the door directly, what your spell is doing is summoning a golem that will rip the door out of its hinges for you. In any case, I don't think going through summoning rules and additional characters is the best option.