Walking Conjunctions...

[vultur]

What do you think it would cost in Refresh terms to be a walking conjunction, i.e. to be able to (CD spoilers)

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kill immortals anytime

I think all it actually means is changing the possible take-out conditions, and non-Halloween killed immortals still go away for quite a while I think, so it might not really have any mechanical weight at all and thus be -0.

What do you think?

[Blk4ce]

Pretty much. You just give them one more option for take-out. In case you /want/ to give a mechanical benefit, give them a re-skinned "All are equal before God" and put it at -1. A Highlander character would have such power.

[Belial666]

There aren't any characters who are walking conjunctions. Any of them who were have died in accidents like having an airplane fall off the sky and onto them while they were taking a stroll, having all four tires of their car blow up leading to it falling off the road a hundred feet down a ravine only to be run over by a speeding train, or termites eating the supports in their house leading to its collapse and the subsequent explosion of the gas main.


In other words, if simply knowing the right time of the year to kill immortals makes you a fugitive, what would being able to kill them 24/7 do to you?

[Blk4ce]

There aren't any characters who are walking conjunctions. Any of them who were have died in accidents like having an airplane fall off the sky and onto them while they were taking a stroll, having all four tires of their car blow up leading to it falling off the road a hundred feet down a ravine only to be run over by a speeding train, or termites eating the supports in their house leading to its collapse and the subsequent explosion of the gas main.


In other words, if simply knowing the right time of the year to kill immortals makes you a fugitive, what would being able to kill them 24/7 do to you?

One god uses such a character as a weapon to kill an enemy god. That's a plausible scenario.

[Belial666]

Unlikely. Just because you can kill a god if you take them out doesn't mean you can actually defeat them. Said god could be standing right behind you with a gun (or the godly equivalent) pointed at the back of your head and you wouldn't notice them at all because the veil they were using would be too strong for you to see through. Said god could send an arctic ice storm your way and freeze you to death without even getting close to you. Said god could simply wait for you to use a Way to reach their domain - and then redirect it to the nearest volcano or other natural hazard they have ready.

[Blk4ce]

Unlikely. Just because you can kill a god if you take them out doesn't mean you can actually defeat them. Said god could be standing right behind you with a gun (or the godly equivalent) pointed at the back of your head and you wouldn't notice them at all because the veil they were using would be too strong for you to see through. Said god could send an arctic ice storm your way and freeze you to death without even getting close to you. Said god could simply wait for you to use a Way to reach their domain - and then redirect it to the nearest volcano or other natural hazard they have ready.

If a God has an asset like this at his/her disposal, he/she wouldn't leave him without some serious protection (that would be negated by herself at a moment's notice of course).

[Belial666]

Then it ends up being god vs god in direct power. Meaning the proxy is no longer an asset.

[Blk4ce]

It is, because it has the power of tipping the balance. It gives a serious edge.
For example he has this

Godkiller [-0]:Every action that you participate in, can potentially kill immortals

That gives you justification to put an aspect to a ritual "Slaying Immortals", even if all you did was a declaration or giving a consequence. Every god with enemies will value that power. Their enemies will STAY dead.

[Locnil]

It presumes that gods wouldn't be more interested in the status quo than trying to profit off upsetting it. Given that entities who disrupt the status quo tend to have much shorter lives than their counterparts, I wouldn't call this a valid assumption. Think of it as a Prisoner's Dilemma on a divine level.

[Taran]

Is there a power that makes someone immortal?

Typically a recovery power or "living Dead" or some reskinned power thereof.

I think the power has to be at least equal in refresh to the power that makes them immortal.  Often, though, this might simply be an aspect.  So, I don't think it comes down to a refresh cost.

I think you'd need narrative justification and that's it.

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Like a specific time of year.

It doesn't necessarily mean they have the creatures' catch.  That is something completely separate.

How is said character able to do this, narratively? 

1. I think it should be an aspect at the very least
2. It should require a FP to invoke said aspect. 
3. They still need to be able to kill their opponent.  This 'power' shouldn't give them access to any specific catch.  So if the opponent is nigh invulnerable, good luck killing them in the first place
4.  Meta-gaming, if you're sending this creature/person against an a PC, you should let them know that Character death is on the table.

[Blk4ce]

I like your suggestions, except number 2. Powers that require you to spend FP is something I don't like, you basically pay an extra refresh.

[Taran]

I like your suggestions, except number 2. Powers that require you to spend FP is something I don't like, you basically pay an extra refresh.

Spending a FP is not the equivalent of a refresh.  Fp's are used for so much more.  Besides, that's HOW you invoke character aspects.  You shouldn't get to do it for free.

It's how Knights of the cross use All Creatures Are Equal Before God so there is precedent.  That on top of the fact that Knights have ALSO paid refresh to use a power that requires a FP.

In fact there's a stunt (and stunts require refresh) where you have to pay a FP to get a +3 damage bonus.

I don't think paying a FP to be able to dictate a permanent kill against an immortal is high price to pay.  How often will it come up?  Not often.  In the mean-time, you can use that FP for other things

[Blk4ce]

Ok, that's your playstyle. But for me it's not agreeable. Spending an FP for a power that I ALREADY paid for is not right, I believe, even if it is once every ten scenes.

[Taran]

Ok, that's your playstyle. But for me it's not agreeable. Spending an FP for a power that I ALREADY paid for is not right, I believe, even if it is once every ten scenes.

Effects:
All Creatures Are Equal Before God. This is the
truest purpose of the Swords of the Cross,
the ability that makes even ancient dragons
take pause when facing a Knight. When
facing an opponent, the Knight may spend a
fate point to ignore that opponent’s defensive
abilities

and

Killer Blow: Add 3 to the damage of a Fists
attack on a successful hit, once per scene, for a
fate point. This stacks with any

Just because you wouldn't personally buy a power like that doesn't mean they don't exist or are unbalanced.  In fact, I'm not even suggesting that it be a power.  I'm simply saying that it's a matter of invoking an aspect.  You aren't paying ANY refresh at all.

Are you saying that  you never invoke your character aspects?  That's the whole point of using FP's.

[Blk4ce]

I never said they don't exist or are unbalanced. I am well aware that they exist, just that I, personally, don't like them.

It's one thing to pay for an invoke, and another to pay for a power AND THEN pay also the invoke. In my opinion, there shouldn't be a need for a power like that. These things are better served as character aspects.
I mean, isn't paying 2 refresh for 1 stunt a little unfair? That's what it is basically. And it doesn't stop there, you have to pay an FP every time.

EDIT: In case you didn't realise it, we are saying the same thing, that such a power is better kept as an aspect only.