An idea to allow more spell casting

[potestas]

if you have read any of my posts you will know I am not entirely happy with the fate rules, especially as it applys to wizards. in most games a moderatly powered wizard can use a lot more magic then a dresden wizard. Most of you will agree. I say most of you because even if you think you don't agree I have seen a lot of your home brewed powers and many of them enhance spell casting in some way. This implies that we are not entirely satisfied with the casting rules. The stress rules severly limit casting. I know this from reading a lot of posts. A lot of us simply allow the caster to "rest" before continuing. Since the rules are vague on what rest is many of us interpret them loosley.

A simply solution i am going to implement is to allow a wizard or caster to be able to cast any spell whose power does not exceed half his convictionat no cost. I am not sure if should inlcude focus items or refinements but as of right now its just conviction. This allows the wizard to cast a good deal of minor or moderate spells with little cost, to be used against mortals and lesser critters without them constantly have to "rest" to reset the stress. It will add more meaning to his spells as he has to reach deeper into his reserves to overcome greater obsticles.

I was rereading stormfront and it seemed to me when harry first overcame the frog demon he did so by tapping the power of the storm. The storm augmented his power to a far greater degree then the a simple +1 to the ladder that the rules state. He channelled the naturally occuring energy of the storm into at least a legendary effect as he put down the frog demon with one hit. If we are at all honest with ourselves the hit was probably far stronger then that. There is nothing in the rules that allows wizards to do this, at least not to the effect harry does in the book. The spell he used would seem to be a cross between evocation and thaumaturgy, he seemed to prepare it but the effects were much stronger then the time he had and what the rules would have allowed for. Does anyone have anything in mind to allow wizards to do such stunts that better mimics what harry did in the book?

[Sanctaphrax]

A simply solution i am going to implement is to allow a wizard or caster to be able to cast any spell whose power does not exceed half his convictionat no cost. I am not sure if should inlcude focus items or refinements but as of right now its just conviction. This allows the wizard to cast a good deal of minor or moderate spells with little cost, to be used against mortals and lesser critters without them constantly have to "rest" to reset the stress. It will add more meaning to his spells as he has to reach deeper into his reserves to overcome greater obsticles.

I'm not totally opposed to the idea, but I don't think it's a good idea to make mandatory anything that'd increase the minimum cost of the Wizard Template. It's already barely playable at Chest Deep, and with that perk it might not even be playable at Submerged.

So yeah, that should definitely be an optional upgrade Power and not part of the basic package.

Does anyone have anything in mind to allow wizards to do such stunts that better mimics what harry did in the book?

Invoke an Aspect. Or multiple Aspects.

[potestas]

it doesn't have to add any cost to the wizard, its just part of the ability of wizards. Like exersize. A guy who can curl 90 lbs 10 times can certainly curl 45 pretty much all day. Hes just swinging his arms. Same with wizards. Also the more I think about it the more I am inclined to allow refinements to factor in. Example: conviction is 4 earth refinement is 2 total 6. Said wizard can use any effect of 3 or less without stress. said wizard with a discipline of 5 would still get off an earth attack of 4-12 without stress. More then enough to take down  mortals and lesser criters even if it takes a shot or two. He can save his stress of blocks armor and or other stuff to affect the sceen. I like it.

[Sanctaphrax]

It does have to add a cost. Evocation is well worth 3 Refresh. With your addition, it would be worth more. And therefore it would have to cost more.

[Blackmako]

Is it a "rest" per say that a wizard needs to get rid of mental stress? I thought it was based on scene end (roughly combat ending). Say you have a wizard at 5 conviction. That's a possible 6 spells in one scene (due to extra mild) and four spells per next scene. Then a third scene with a possible 6 spells (as mild consequences go away after the next scene). So three scenes 16 spells. As scenes can be 15 minutes onward a Dresden wizard wisely conserving power can throw out a good chunk of spells in day IMO. I've seen wizard players drop a 6-7 shift weapon spell plus 2 or 3 successes from discipline to hit on a ZONE. Being able to drop zone wide attacks at 10-12 shifts is pretty darn powerful and not repeatable by any other power. Maybe a smart wizard tries to maneuver the enemy into a cluster to nuke them. And carry a pistol. : P When I see players get their mental consequences from spell casting is when they start throwing out haymakers from buying shifts with stress when generating power.

Definitely should be a chunk of refresh to have an endlessly firing pew pew pew evocation spell. It could be balance breaking if said wizard can keep pew pewing with maxed out on mental consequences. Means a wizard that would never by drained dry of magic. And Harry's been drained dry many times.

If you have other wizards around or meatheads (physical powered supers) that's a lot of pain flying around.

[potestas]

the point of the addition to the rules is to allow casters to cast more spells. So the rule for evocation -3 is everything the books says and includes the ability to toss around weak spells at no cost. I am using the addition to satisfy my desire to allow wizards/casters more spells at the same cost. I dont like their inability to cast spells without stress even small spells any apprentice wizard could do in time. such as a light spell.

The point of the exersize was to change the what -3 evocation does, in my game it will now allows any spell whose powe r is less then or equal to conviction + any refinement cast at no stress. so a conviction 6 wizard can now toss around 3 shifts of power with no stress. (he basically has a good attack whenever he needs it. toss in discipline and the good attack jumps nicely. basically he can save his heavy spell casting for blocks shields and manuvers etc. )He just does it. This gives caster s a way to cast weaker spells without adding stress and lets them have their full stress pool for large casts...iIE digging deeper to take out tougher enemies.

The main benefit is to make the caster more like wizards from books and games where casters are well casters not people who have to huff and puff just to make a candle ignite. I bring it up because based on all the additional rules people have created they recognize how stunted a dresden wizard is.  Rather then do that admit that evocation as written is flawed in the sense you really cant create a wizard who can cast spells, just a few before hes done. Any spell no matter how weak tires the caster. Even if hes has years of practice lighting a candle he always gets tired. Thats why the analogy with exersize. if you can curl 100 lbs curling half that is nothing you can do it for a long while.

this is just an easier way to pump up spell casting without having to add a whole bunch of player made powers.

[potestas]

Is it a "rest" per say that a wizard needs to get rid of mental stress? I thought it was based on scene end (roughly combat ending). Say you have a wizard at 5 conviction. That's a possible 6 spells in one scene (due to extra mild) and four spells per next scene. Then a third scene with a possible 6 spells (as mild consequences go away after the next scene). So three scenes 16 spells. As scenes can be 15 minutes onward a Dresden wizard wisely conserving power can throw out a good chunk of spells in day IMO. I've seen wizard players drop a 6-7 shift weapon spell plus 2 or 3 successes from discipline to hit on a ZONE. Being able to drop zone wide attacks at 10-12 shifts is pretty darn powerful and not repeatable by any other power. Maybe a smart wizard tries to maneuver the enemy into a cluster to nuke them. And carry a pistol. : P When I see players get their mental consequences from spell casting is when they start throwing out haymakers from buying shifts with stress when generating power.

Definitely should be a chunk of refresh to have an endlessly firing pew pew pew evocation spell. It could be balance breaking if said wizard can keep pew pewing with maxed out on mental consequences. Means a wizard that would never by drained dry of magic. And Harry's been drained dry many times.

If you have other wizards around or meatheads (physical powered supers) that's a lot of pain flying around.

the problem with the rest idea is combat is fluid, when can you actually say and then be "resting" in a fire fight. If you read the boards its pretty much up in the air. The reason ( i think) is people know the games rules, as is,  make casting more then a few spells per fight impossible or at least really tough. so they "cheat" They do things in game  like "i turned the corner, i am resting now before the bad guy comes around it"  Your character caught his breath thats kind of what stress represents in this game and gosh you can go back to casting spells again. Its forced.  Some Gamemasters are ok with it others no. But this stems from the poorly written rules that do not reflect what wizards in the dresden books can do or what wizards within urban fanasy can do. So rather then have a whole bunch of extra powers to fix this, i am suggesting a fix to the evocation ability as it is written. The cost stays the same, no reason to change it. My goal is to better reflect what urban fanasy wizards have demonstrated in the books ive read. And lest we forget, that is the reason we play a wizard in an urban fantasy game. we want to cast spells. Those are our tools and weapons, everyone else has an unlimited supply of their tools and weapons so should we.

[blackstaff67]

Over the door to the Academy in Star Fleet Battles is a sign: "Use your tractors, dammit!"  You can get around the need for lots o' spells by using your other skills to make Declarations and assessments.  And yea, the pistols and shotguns and enchanted items also get used.

[Cadd]

Also - there already is rules for no-stress evocation. Mundane Effects (such as specifically calling light) usually costs no stress.

[Sanctaphrax]

Hang on, let me get this straight. Do you actually think DFRPG spellcasters are underpowered? That they can't compete with non-spellcasting characters?

[Blk4ce]

Hang on, let me get this straight. Do you actually think DFRPG spellcasters are underpowered? That they can't compete with non-spellcasting characters?

I think he says that he doesn't like the fact that they can cast only 4 spells maximum without going into consequences. Maybe he means they are underpowered compared to spellcasters from other games?

[Locnil]

Hang on, let me get this straight. Do you actually think DFRPG spellcasters are underpowered? That they can't compete with non-spellcasting characters?

I think his beef is that the narrative focus of DFRPG combined with the way spells work leads to wonky behaviour on the part of players, arguing that in fact several scenes have already  passed so as to justify clearing the stress, track, etc. which can slow down the game and make it break verisimilitude. If I got it right, he wants to make spellcasting overall weaker (halving the base power) but removing the stress cost, making it somewhat on par with mundane characters.

[Haru]

I feel like this is a cake˛ solution.

One of the things the Dresden Verse is big on is choice, and if you have a limited resource you are paying your spells from, that's an excellent way to get that across when it comes to wizards. Either do the spell and make it count, or don't. Harry often opens with a big blast of fire, if necessary, and if that doesn't work, he either runs or he gets creative. If instead, you just spend all your available spells trying to get that one lucky hit, you don't really use them to their best potential.

If you want to extend the amount you can cast, there are already plenty of options. You can take Enchanted Items. 1 Point of Refresh can give you 8 additional spells if you put them all on 1 item to increase uses per session. Sure, they are not flexible, but spread them around and you're golden. Or take one or two points in frequency specialization, and it'll get you even more.
Or you can take breath weapon as a way to emulate your talent and/or training for combat magic. You can slug those out pretty much as much as you like, without them costing stress.

But with both those options, you still make a choice. You are spending your refresh, again a limited resource, that you could spend on other upgrades instead. If this is a way to get around having to take, for example, the "guns" skill, I feel like it is again cheating the choices the game forces you into. I think it's better to either get creative with the spells you do have, or concede to fight another day.

[Belial666]

Or, you can cheat.

Use thaumaturgy to set up multiple low-power spells on yourself - 4 to 6 shifts of power for an effect plus a couple of shifts for duration so it lasts longer than a scene. This gives you several interesting options;

1) Sticky Aspects like "Lucky" or "Magical Enhancement" taggable to enhance your rolls. Effectively, you use magic in advance to boost your abilites subtly when needed. Never underestimate the guy wearing two-dozen magically empowered good luck charms. 

2) Attack or Defense effects stored in spell components. For example, a small rock (weapon 1) enchanted with the aspects "Heavy Impact", "Improbable Accuracy" and "Guided Missile". Just throw at an enemy and you get a weapon 1 Legendary (+8) attack by tagging its aspects. 

3) Sticky aspects like "Aura of Power", "Magical Reserves", "Mana Storage" and the like. Instead of using the aspect to boost any rolls (though you still can), you use the Evocation ability to redirect an existing spell's energy. All those magical aspects are thematically neutral existing spells so you can redirect that energy to fuel your evocation - without expending mental stress.


Of course, such preparation has its drawbacks. It takes time. It makes you shine like a beacon on arcane senses. It is easy to dispel. And your GM is guaranteed to send assassins after your ass. 

[MadAlchemist]

I'm with Belial, cheat.
I went for a one slot enchanted item, (on a lore 4 chest deep wizard) allowing him an "at will" two shift lightning attack. Pew, pew, pew. All day long.