Secret to Succes?

[crystalphoenixhobbies1]

Not sure if Mr. Butcher reads all of the forums, and to be honest I'd be surprised if he had the time, so while my question is directed towards him, I'll take any answers I can get.  There is no doubt that you are a brilliant author, and your books have been read by countless people across the globe.  But at one point you were just like the rest of us.  I recently self-published an ebook on Amazon (Just a 90 page short story to get my work out there for once), but out of the billions (with a B) of people out there, not a single one has decided that the $0.99 price tag is worth spending to take a look at it.  So the question I have is: What did you do, when you first started writing, to get your name out there?  Was it a bunch of self promotion, recommendations from your publishers, or just blind luck, the chance encounters of people who saw your book on the shelves, and decided not only to read it, but to recommend it to a friend?  I'm not really sure if there is an answer, or if its all three (or more) of those at once.

Crystal Phoenix Hobbies

[Griffyn612]

I'm not in the industry, but there was mention of how hard it is to get started just last night on The Colbert Report.  There's a publisher that's being strong-armed by Amazon, and a lot of people are lashing out at Amazon for it. 

The guest commentator on the show talked about how hard it is to get published, and how a book's sales are usually determined well before it's actually released.  It has to do with promotion by the publisher and seller.  Even published books can be D.O.A. without promotion.  The commentator stated that its nearly impossible for new authors to get started now.

There's also a lot of videos on Youtube where JB talks about how hard it was for him to get published.  Most authors I've read are very open about the process, and they all talk about numerous books, sometimes a handful, sometimes an entire series, that they write but never get published.  Butcher has a tale of an unpublished story that was never deemed good enough.  Kevin Hearne wrote an epic fantasy novel which didn't get published.  With half a dozen books released in the Iron Druid Chronicles series, he's now looking at going back and polishing his original fantasy plot.  Now he's one of the better known modern fantasy authors out there, but he still has a day job to support him and his family.   Seanan McGuire writes urban fantasy, and I know the name but never read her stuff.  She too apparently has had to keep a day job, despite having released a bunch of books.

I've also seen commentary that the self-publishing boom through Amazon is already fading.  Most folks that have met with any success on self-publishing are now looking to get published, simply because there's almost no way to promote your work via self-publishing, you have to do it all yourself, and your target audience is limited.  There's even talk about how the publishing industry is very demaning on the authors, requiring them to go out and promote their own works on social media, do book tours around the country for siginings and readings, and attend large panels at conventions with a bunch of other authors, all to spread the word of their work just a little bit more.

[The Deposed King]

Not sure if Mr. Butcher reads all of the forums, and to be honest I'd be surprised if he had the time, so while my question is directed towards him, I'll take any answers I can get.  There is no doubt that you are a brilliant author, and your books have been read by countless people across the globe.  But at one point you were just like the rest of us.  I recently self-published an ebook on Amazon (Just a 90 page short story to get my work out there for once), but out of the billions (with a B) of people out there, not a single one has decided that the $0.99 price tag is worth spending to take a look at it.  So the question I have is: What did you do, when you first started writing, to get your name out there?  Was it a bunch of self promotion, recommendations from your publishers, or just blind luck, the chance encounters of people who saw your book on the shelves, and decided not only to read it, but to recommend it to a friend?  I'm not really sure if there is an answer, or if its all three (or more) of those at once.

Crystal Phoenix Hobbies

I would say that a 90 page story up on amazon with nothing else in your back list isn't going to sell.  People on amazon, in my experience, don't care for short stories in general and the only time they'll buy one is if its part of an ongoing series.

Beyond that I would say that the bar for writing a book and shoving it out the door, self published, on amazon has risen.  My best advise is action, action, action.  Keep it exciting, keep it interesting and keep it focused on the story without infodumps on the world or anything else.  If its not relevent to the story dump it.

Beyond that.  You can do face book groups.  You can put your story up on places like Baen's Bar, and get people to read it.  If you're good enough, you'll get fans who will want to support you and they will buy it.  Other than that I don't know what to tell you.  Write a bigger book?  And get a couple of them out the door?

I'd say sign up for amazon exclusive and give out a free offering with the hope of getting some reviews.  But I'm not sure that's the best way to go for you, with only a 90 pager out there.



best of luck,


The Deposed King

[crystalphoenixhobbies1]

  To be honest, I wasn't even aware that there even was a time when self published books were huge.  I did, however, know that it was becoming nearly impossible for the average person to get a book published these days.  That was sort of the point of a short story.  While yes, most people aren't interested in them, they still have the potential to get your name out there, without relying on a publisher to decide if you are good enough.  Of course, that requires an actual purchase, which just goes back to how do you get people to buy?
  Unlike most people here, I don't write because I think I'll someday be a huge success.  I write because that's what I enjoy doing, more than anything else I've found.  And since I'm going on 31, I've tried most things.  (The Deposed King):  The 90 page short story is the first in a series of at least seven, though likely they will all be less than 200 pages.  That does not mean, however, that I don't have bigger books in the works.  Two of my older ones are around 250 pages and only halfway done. But when you work 40 hours a week, are doing home renovations on a 100 year old house, and still need to find time to spend with your wife, it becomes harder to get longer books done.  But I do see your point. lol.

Crystal Phoenix Hobbies

[The Deposed King]

  To be honest, I wasn't even aware that there even was a time when self published books were huge.  I did, however, know that it was becoming nearly impossible for the average person to get a book published these days.  That was sort of the point of a short story.  While yes, most people aren't interested in them, they still have the potential to get your name out there, without relying on a publisher to decide if you are good enough.  Of course, that requires an actual purchase, which just goes back to how do you get people to buy?
  Unlike most people here, I don't write because I think I'll someday be a huge success.  I write because that's what I enjoy doing, more than anything else I've found.  And since I'm going on 31, I've tried most things.  (The Deposed King):  The 90 page short story is the first in a series of at least seven, though likely they will all be less than 200 pages.  That does not mean, however, that I don't have bigger books in the works.  Two of my older ones are around 250 pages and only halfway done. But when you work 40 hours a week, are doing home renovations on a 100 year old house, and still need to find time to spend with your wife, it becomes harder to get longer books done.  But I do see your point. lol.

Crystal Phoenix Hobbies

70k+ for novel length is a minimum size.  Anything else is novella territory which cut down on sales.

As for self-publishing, self-published books and reader base are more and larger than ever.  But there are also more authors than ever before also so the competition is more fierce.

Also I don't think there are many of us here who write because we think we're the next tolkien or will be the next box office smasher.  Life as a working author whose books are enjoyed by many are what I personally am shooting for and I think many others are as well.

As for family and others, life throws you curve balls.

Things to consider to help you book sell.

Story Length - too small is self limiting
Product Description -  this is the back of the book, make it count
A good Cover - a picture says a thousand words
Reviews - they not only move you up on the search engine ranking much like sale but they also advertise to new readers, who can skim your reviews and help form and opinion

Worst case you can go to some place like Baen's bar put it in the slush and ask for people to read it. If they reade it and like it you could ask them to put up a review.  The same goes for any of your beta readers.  Ask them to go onto amazon, make an account if they don't already have one and pop up an honest review.

Those are the only things I can think of that could help you.

best of luck,


The Deposed King

[crystalphoenixhobbies1]

Lol. Those are very fair points, and I'll have to try them out. Thank you. Also, I just reread what I last wrote, and apparently I'm a little pompous when I first wake up, so I apologize for implying that everyone is trying to be the next Tolkien or Butcher. I really didn't mean for it to come out that way. Lol

[The Deposed King]

Lol. Those are very fair points, and I'll have to try them out. Thank you. Also, I just reread what I last wrote, and apparently I'm a little pompous when I first wake up, so I apologize for implying that everyone is trying to be the next Tolkien or Butcher. I really didn't mean for it to come out that way. Lol

No worries.  Have a good one!



The Deposed King

[meg_evonne]

Ask yourself why you write. Do you write for fame and recognition? In real life, that's a by product of a few hearty souls. Note I didn't say lucky. Many of us are driven to write and to tell the story. We don't care; we write. OK we care, but it ain't our chief reason.

Follow DK's advice and wise comments. He knows.

My advice? Keep writing. Keep telling your stories. And freaking keep improving. You've a long road ahead of you. Its usually the 5th or 6th full novel that gets accepted--and that's assuming you are improving your craft skills. You HAVE to have the skill and talent and hard work to get to a worthy product.

Another way of saying this is the 10,000 rule. A study was done to determine how long it takes a virtuoso to reach a level of competency.  10000 practices of mindful, studied hard work with teachers and mentors. Same for writing. I assume that's a minimum of 10000 HOURS.

How many have you clocked? Keep writing if it is your passion.

During Jim's master writing class at WyrdCon (well worth the travel and expense) he stressed how you NEVER stop stretching your craft skill and tools. Take a hard critical look at Skin Game. He pumped up his skill set by a factor of 10 or more! That's why his series is as vibrant now as it was with Storm Front.

This is a full contact sport and not for wimps AND even with an amazing manuscript it may never be read by many.

Best wishes!

[superpsycho]

Not sure if Mr. Butcher reads all of the forums, and to be honest I'd be surprised if he had the time, so while my question is directed towards him, I'll take any answers I can get.  There is no doubt that you are a brilliant author, and your books have been read by countless people across the globe.  But at one point you were just like the rest of us.  I recently self-published an ebook on Amazon (Just a 90 page short story to get my work out there for once), but out of the billions (with a B) of people out there, not a single one has decided that the $0.99 price tag is worth spending to take a look at it.  So the question I have is: What did you do, when you first started writing, to get your name out there?  Was it a bunch of self promotion, recommendations from your publishers, or just blind luck, the chance encounters of people who saw your book on the shelves, and decided not only to read it, but to recommend it to a friend?  I'm not really sure if there is an answer, or if its all three (or more) of those at once.

Crystal Phoenix Hobbies

I would assume since your inquiry was directed at Mr Butcher, your measure of success would be traditional publishing. But whether tradition or self-publishing the key to success is learning your craft. That doesn't just mean the writing part, it also means the whole process. For traditional publishing it means knowing who is who for your genre, the process involved in getting an agent and what publishers want. You have to take as much care on your submission package as you do your stories.
Traditional Publishing Resources

When you self publish, the degree of success will largely depend on how much effort you're willing to put into promoting your work, which can be time consuming. Often it's best to work with a friend or family member who is into the social media scene. It's mainly about knowing how to spread the word through forums, blogs and websites. It's also knowing the process by which you self publish; getting reviews and building a fan base.

But of course, as any author will tell you, the first step is actually learning how to complete a manuscript no matter had bad it stinks, then going back and making it readable.

 

 
 

[Wordmaker]

As Deposed King said, short stories aren't really going to sell. I have one short story available and another on the way that are purely there as a little bit of an extra for my existing readers. I'd suggest getting out of thinking in terms of pages, and into thinking in wordcounts. Number of pages is decided during internal design and typesetting, and if you went to an agent or a publisher, they would ask for a wordcount, not number of pages.

You really do want to aim for 80,000 words, and then when you have that done, either seek out a literary agent, or hire a professional editor (or, if you know someone with the right skills and experience, see if they'll do you a favour an edit it for free, or in return for something else). You're going to need that expert, third-party opinion. And not just to catch spelling and grammar mistakes, but for structural edits, too, like continuity, pacing, themes. My first novel wound up having the first 50 pages cut. My second required a complete re-write before my publisher would even offer me the contract.

Of course, you can be an astonishing writer, and you won't get anywhere if you don't put in the work elsewhere. Build up an online platform. Start a blog, build a website, get on social media. Engage with the writing and fandom community, but don't act like a salesman. If you post nothing but sales pitches, people will ignore you. It's a real connection people look for, that encourages them to take a chance on your book and tell others about it. They'll help you succeed because they want to see you get to write more books.

When people tell you they've read your book, as them if they'd mind posting a review on Amazon and Goodreads. Host giveaways and contests to draw attention to your brand.

But during all this, remember that the only way to reliably draw more attention to your work is to keep writing. I had a book out in 2012 and in 2013, and this year I have two out. And I still feel like I need to write more and get more books out there.

As for time, well, I'm not renovating a house, but I work 40 hours a week, with an hour commute each way. My wife is a wheelchair-user so there are things she needs help with around the house, and certain household chores she simply can't do. And we have three babies under the age of 2. I get up at 6am every day, including weekends. After getting the girls to bed and having dinner, it's often  8 or 9pm by the time I get to sit down and unwind. I write before I leave for work, during my lunch, and for a few hours every Saturday and Sunday morning.

You find the time for the things that matter, and that's what you need to decide, as Meg said. It's all about priorities, and

Pretty much anyone can get 500 words written in one hour, if they focus on it. With practice, this will easily go up to 1,000. If you write just 1 hour a day, and give yourself weekends off, you can write a draft of an 80,000 word novel in 16 weeks. Give yourself another 4 weeks to account for spellchecking and edits before sending it to an agent or editor, and that's 20 weeks for one novel.

Even with a busy schedule, you can easily get 2 novels written each year, with 12 weeks off for holidays and special occasions.

[crystalphoenixhobbies1]

I know I haven't responded to the posts here, and I apologize. Been a crazy couple of weeks. In any case, I truly appreciate all the good advice. Wordmaker: I thought I had a busy day to day schedule, but you definitely have me beat. Thank you for the advice. This is the first time I've ever tried to publicly show my writings, and really had no idea how to spread the word about it. And as you pointed out, the end result of my questions often seem like advertising. That's not really what I'm trying to do, but it happens anyway. I hadn't ever really thought of going by word count, but as I find the time to write more, it's something I'll definitely pay attention to now.

[Wordmaker]

There are apps you can get that will let you set a timer, and block your internet access for that period of time. Some writers find that they help a lot with focus. If you do most of your writing from home, that might help get you into the habit.

I also find that having a couple of writer friends who can offer moral support is a good idea. I credit the fact Locked Within even got written with the fact I had wordcount races on Facebook with a friend.

[crystalphoenixhobbies1]

I actually did find that I had that issue with focus. I'd sit down wit  the intention of writing for an hour period, only to discover I'd spent the entire time surfing the web. Never thought of making it a competition with someone else. Instead, I got past it by only writing on my phone with the notes app, and editing it later on the computer. I guess you just have to so whatever works.

[Wordmaker]

Well that's it, exactly. No two authors find the same way to get their work done. Whatever fits your needs the best is what you go for. Same goes for your publishing options. Just make sure you learn as much as you can about all the choices available.

[crystalphoenixhobbies1]

Certainly can't argue with that. If you're ever interested in a quick read between your own writings...  Just kidding. Seriously though, thank you. You've given me a lot to consider as I continue to write.