Precognition but not tragic

[Mauve Shirt]

Hello!
So I'm trying to build a minor talent character with precognition. If you've read many Grimm's Fairy Tales, I basically want this guy to be Clever Hans, whom everyone mocks but is always right in the end. Precognizant with high deceit. A good person for trolling internet Paranet forums and conning some provincial king out of his money.
How far ahead would he have to see to 1. be correct about any given situation (if the dice and DM allow it), and 2. not be a crazy lawbreaker of some sort? If all I wanted was a bonus to dodge I'd make it 3 seconds, but it would take probably 2 to 5 minutes of foresight to accurately guess the contents of a scene.

I don't want strict disbelief as with Cassandra's Tears, because I don't want him to be embittered and hate or be hated by the party. It's just not fun roleplaying. The rulebook has no ideas for just future sight, though.

Thanks!

[Sanctaphrax]

The Prophecy Power from the wiki might be what you're looking for.

You could also just use Cassandra's Tears, with the understanding that the other PCs don't hate you. I don't think they're supposed to have to.

[Katarn]

Checked the Cassandra's Tears listing, there's nothing about dislike in the entry.  You party could easily play it off by joshing or mocking your predictions, instead of actual dislike.

Cassandra's Tears are primarily predictions- i.e. things not happening immediately- that the GM would provide to your character.  As for being able to dodge attacks (aka some sort of Spider sense), it's too good of an ability of a -0 cost ability (C's Tears).  I would recommend using Inhuman speed (-2), or you could talk to your GM about some (-1) variant where you only get some sort of limited dodge and increased initiative, and not the other abilities of general athletics check, "casual movement", and "almost too fast to see."

TL;DR.  My recommendations:
[-0]  Cassandra's Tears (with the understanding your players will mock your character, not dislike)
[-1]  Inhuman Speed Variant (only initiative and dodging ability, not general athletics, movement, or stealth movement)

[Sanctaphrax]

I probably wouldn't allow that. Most of the combat benefits of Inhuman Speed for half the price.

[Katarn]

I probably wouldn't allow that. Most of the combat benefits of Inhuman Speed for half the price.

Fair point.  Maybe modify the remaining abilities to be more precognition-based and keep it at [-2]?  Some sort of renamed "Precognition Reflexes"?

[Taran]

Instead of overcoming penalties to stealth, it could be a bonus to reading people...

[narphoenix]

Fair point.  Maybe modify the remaining abilities to be more precognition-based and keep it at [-2]?  Some sort of renamed "Precognition Reflexes"?

Like the [-2] Precognition already on the wiki?

[Sanctaphrax]

Yeah, I'd probably use Precognition. But I can see why someone wouldn't want to...it's often a lot of rolling for fairly simple numerical bonuses.

Not sure exactly how best to modify Speed, but it's an interesting idea. I'd definitely want a bonus to Avoiding Surprise in there. But that wouldn't be enough to replace +2 to sprinting, +1 to non-sprinting non-dodging Athletics, no supplemental movement penalty, and 2 shifts of ignored movement penalties to Stealth.

[Mauve Shirt]

Checked the Cassandra's Tears listing, there's nothing about dislike in the entry.  You party could easily play it off by joshing or mocking your predictions, instead of actual dislike.

Cassandra's Tears are primarily predictions- i.e. things not happening immediately- that the GM would provide to your character.  As for being able to dodge attacks (aka some sort of Spider sense), it's too good of an ability of a -0 cost ability (C's Tears).  I would recommend using Inhuman speed (-2), or you could talk to your GM about some (-1) variant where you only get some sort of limited dodge and increased initiative, and not the other abilities of general athletics check, "casual movement", and "almost too fast to see."

TL;DR.  My recommendations:
[-0]  Cassandra's Tears (with the understanding your players will mock your character, not dislike)
[-1]  Inhuman Speed Variant (only initiative and dodging ability, not general athletics, movement, or stealth movement)

Eh, the dodging is just what the wiki says about precognition. It's not super important, though I'd add it as a stunt with DM permission.
My only fear is that I can't provide much of an explanation for how someone with Cassandra's Tears would grow up without hating everyone. Not necessarily the party hating him (being mocked is part of the archetype) but how do you have an actually smart character just brush off every word of disbelief from every person ever? Simple interactions from early in life would cause embitterment. "I like you and want to be friends." "Psh, yeah right, you're just an asshole trying to get something out of me". Every damn time. I've played several trust-issues characters and after the first few dramatic scenes they're neither fun nor interesting.
If Cassandra's Tears work more like vague world-changing prophecy and less like "There's a demon behind that rock, don't touch it", then I don't think it would be useful for this character. If it's every single word coming out of the character's mouth being distrusted I think it would overwhelm the character.

[Troy]

Does everything the character say or do have to be mistrusted? I never got that impression from Cassandra's Tears. I thought your difficulty was in convincing other people that your premonitions were real, accurate, and applicable.

The thing about Cassandra's Tears is that it's just weird in a Dresden setting. The thematics of the ability are ripped from Greek mythology and your character emulates Cassandra, whom no one believes. I find it odd that folks who might believe in witchcraft and wizardry, vampires and werewolves, angels and demons ... wouldn't believe someone who says they saw/dreamt the future.

As for your issue about roleplaying such a character... wouldn't the trust issues be due to his ability... like... you said that he is a con artist with high Deceit. He bilks people. Why? Why would he do that?

Maybe he started out as someone who tried to help people and being ignored and mocked an years of saying "I told you so..." he decides to keep what he knows for himself and profit from it. That's his main means of income. In-game, his circle of friends are spelunking in the supernatural mysteries, and maybe they trust him and don't understand why he never talks about the future he's seen.

[Belial666]

You may be looking for this;

[-1] A Few Seconds Ahead: You can see moments into the future, noticing and thus being able to respond to events shortly before they happen. Use Lore as a defense against all physical and social attacks and maneuvers.

This from Our World. The precog from Ordo Lebes has it. (can't remember her name)

[Sanctaphrax]

Belial! It's been forever and a day. How've you been?

Pretty sure her name is Abby. I'll spare you my standard complaints.

[Belial666]

Been dealing with University and Army stuff - done with both of them now.


As for the usual complaints, aren't they better saved for someone with mythic stoicism, and that power Mouse has that allows burning mental stress to boost any roll by the same amount? 

[Sanctaphrax]

That would indeed be worse, especially if the GM foolishly let the extra stress boxes from Stoicism be used with Sacred Guardian. The current version on the wiki disallows that, fortunately.

[crusher_bob]

I could have sworn there was a version of Cassandra's tears that essentially gave you an addition trouble aspect of being subject to seizures instead of your prophecies not being believable.

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How about this as a way to do simple prophecies?

The prophet comes up with an aspect for the prophecy, the rolls the fudge dice.
For every + showing one fate point is 'created' to that the PCs can use to invoke the aspect to help them.  For every - showing, one fate point is given to the GM to invoke the aspect against them.

Making a prophecy has a very small chance of doing nothing (0.0625, showing 0s on all 4 dice) but creating an aspect that hangs around for a while.  So it almost always does something but it may end up hurting you more than it helps (i.e. gives more fate points to the GM that it gives to the PCs)

For bigger prophecies, add more aspects, and/or more fate points, or (potentially) generate more fate points for it several times (one per session, once per scene, whatever seems appropriate).