Author Topic: Scale Houserules  (Read 5610 times)

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Scale Houserules
« on: May 10, 2014, 06:39:32 AM »
Warning: slight spoilers for Dresden Files and Worm.

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Came up with this because I wanted to stat up gods, Scion, and Shatterbird. Figured I might as well make it a bit easier to represent things like Eb's satellite trick and the Changes uber-spell while I was at it.

As always, input would be greatly appreciated. The charts are basically made-up nonsense and I would really like a sanity check on them. And the Powers are occasionally handwavy.

Also, I'm not happy with the Power names. Any suggestions?

Offline AstronaughtAndy

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2014, 03:53:12 PM »
I think this is an awesome idea. Could the area chart also incorporate things like exceptionally large creatures and vehicles?

Evocation and thaumaturgy could have their own powers.

Taking sponsor debt to move down the area/group tables?

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2014, 06:16:22 PM »
Glad you like the idea.

I'd rather not have the area chart include big creatures, since those can already be targeted normally. No need to add a Complexity tax to any ritual used against a giant.

You can take debt for extra complexity, and you can use that to move down the tables. So yes.

Offline AstronaughtAndy

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2014, 03:14:07 AM »
I must've missed the line about thaumaturgy the first time I read it.

Perhaps in the spirit of Fate, the groups could have descriptive names as well numbers?


Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2014, 04:37:59 AM »
Sure, why not.

Wanna come up with some?

Offline AstronaughtAndy

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2014, 05:39:58 AM »
Sure!

I'd maybe put the different military units in there.

4 = adventuring party
8 = adventuring party and allies, pack of wolves
16 = a squad, a SWAT team
Platoon, street gang
Company,
Battalion
Regiment

That's what I've got right now.

Offline vultur

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2014, 05:26:13 PM »
Cool.

I have to say that the Changes spell probably had way more complexity than this would suggest though. Wasn't it prepped by sacrificing dozens or hundreds of people -- which would imply a complexity in the thousands? With this, you could probably do it with about 45 complexity (7 to allow for an Epic defense + 4 + 20 for all consequences + 10 for a Mythic Toughness stress track + 3 for armor + 1 for takeout ).

That's not really a complaint about the rules though.

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This really needs to be used with some kind of rules limiting stacking Declarations for unlimited complexity. Otherwise pretty much anybody with Thaumaturgy can blow up a continent just by taking enough time.

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I think I might change the area chart a bit. In this version every 2 steps is (roughly....) x10 area. I added a lot of examples too.

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Offline PirateJack

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2014, 07:23:20 PM »
If you're preparing a ritual that large it's going to leave signs for anyone able and willing to look. You can guarantee that the White Council would come down hard on anyone trying to pull off something on that scale, with the Accords members backing them up too.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2014, 09:44:54 PM »
I have to say that the Changes spell probably had way more complexity than this would suggest though. Wasn't it prepped by sacrificing dozens or hundreds of people -- which would imply a complexity in the thousands? With this, you could probably do it with about 45 complexity (7 to allow for an Epic defense + 4 + 20 for all consequences + 10 for a Mythic Toughness stress track + 3 for armor + 1 for takeout ).

That's not really a complaint about the rules though.

Yeah, the sacrifice rules get kind of weird once you do mass sacrifices. It's incredibly easy to generate ridiculous amounts of complexity. There should definitely be some kind of diminishing returns.

I pumped up the complexity to let the spell punch through wards. Eb has access to some good ones, after all.

This really needs to be used with some kind of rules limiting stacking Declarations for unlimited complexity. Otherwise pretty much anybody with Thaumaturgy can blow up a continent just by taking enough time.

They can already do that, I'm afraid. These rules just tell them how much work it'll be.

I think I might change the area chart a bit. In this version every 2 steps is (roughly....) x10 area. I added a lot of examples too.

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Mostly looks good. A few quibbles:

-I'd add another step between "Australia or the US" and "a continent or ocean". Asia is like seven times the size of Australia.

-Many villages cover more than a square mile.

-A street several miles long is a fair bit bigger than a city block.

Sure!

I'd maybe put the different military units in there.

4 = adventuring party
8 = adventuring party and allies, pack of wolves
16 = a squad, a SWAT team
Platoon, street gang
Company,
Battalion
Regiment

That's what I've got right now.

Not a bad start.

Offline AstronaughtAndy

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 06:37:09 AM »
If someone knew how fire and police departments were organized we could add that too.

A car -> Squad? -> Precinct?
Ladder? -> Fire House?

Offline Cadd

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 09:25:40 AM »
A problem with adding police and fire departments is that their organizations varies a lot more across the world than military ones do.

Edit: The prevalence of american media might make it useful to add these organizations american structures anyway, as most people have at least a passing aquaintance with them; they're just not going to be quite as "setting neutral" as the military group sizes.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 09:30:00 AM by Cadd »

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2014, 04:43:35 PM »
Should clarify: 'Given a moment of peace in which to gather your strength'
preferably using game mechanics terms
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2014, 10:06:41 PM »
Not sure how to make it clearer. You need a tiny amount of time, and you need to not be in a fight.

Suggestions?

Offline Locnil

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2014, 06:24:40 PM »
Just wanted to chime in - as with all codification of rules, I think that this is awesome and pretty damn convenient, but rather susceptible to munchkinism. If possible I'd suggest adding limits on how far you can expand it by taking Powers - RAW, a Submerged character could use Incite Effect on an entire city. While it should be possible, for things like the Darkhallow, doing it as a starting character seems off. I'd like to suggest a maximum cap equal to your skill cap - it allows for legendary god-like beings and archmages like Cowl and Kemmler without breaking the setting, and it gives the GM more precise control over how high-powered the game is going to be.

Also, I understand that spellcasting is powerful, but doubling the cost for the power still seems off to me, especially when the new rules already allow casters to spend complexity (which RAW is practically free, unless you use my houserules) to expand the area of effect.

Also, I like that stuff like the ritual bloodline curse can now be statted out without GM fiat. Have you tried statting up the Darkhallow?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 06:28:20 PM by Locnil »

Offline Taran

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Re: Scale Houserules
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2014, 07:57:54 PM »
Just wanted to chime in - as with all codification of rules, I think that this is awesome and pretty damn convenient, but rather susceptible to munchkinism. If possible I'd suggest adding limits on how far you can expand it by taking Powers - RAW, a Submerged character could use Incite Effect on an entire city. While it should be possible, for things like the Darkhallow, doing it as a starting character seems off. I'd like to suggest a maximum cap equal to your skill cap - it allows for legendary god-like beings and archmages like Cowl and Kemmler without breaking the setting, and it gives the GM more precise control over how high-powered the game is going to be.

Also, I understand that spellcasting is powerful, but doubling the cost for the power still seems off to me, especially when the new rules already allow casters to spend complexity (which RAW is practically free, unless you use my houserules) to expand the area of effect.

+1